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Epinoia · 01-07-2005, 03:51 PM

Salaam and shalom are phonetically related words. On the other hand, "dogs" and "pigs" are insults that presumed Arabic and modern Hebrew writers alike hurl at each other in English, so I'm wondering what the words for both are in both languages and whether each is related to its counterpart.

I also note Rambam wrote in Arabic in the 11th century. Is this due to some pogrom on the Iberian peninsula or is it that he knew Arabic and not Hebrew?

Thanks.

Toto · 01-07-2005, 04:32 PM

There's another thread on this Will the Semitic People Ever Reunite? where I posted this link:

Linguistics page on Semitic languages

Arabic and Hebrew are in different two branches of the Semitic language family. Neither is derived from the other and I don't know how you could say that one is older.

Modern Hebrew is a revived language. I have been told that since it was a holy language, there were no swear words in it, and modern Israelis therefore had to borrow swear words from Arabic. I'm not sure why modern Jews and Palestinians would insult each other in English, but this is not the forum for that discussion.

Before the revival of modern Hebrew, Jews spoke the languages of the country they were in, which was often Arabic. Rambam wrote in both Arabic and Hebrew.

Anat · 01-07-2005, 04:43 PM

dog: kelev (H); kalb (A)
pig: hazir (H) [the h is for het]; hinzir (A) [I'm not sure if the h is the soft one or the harder one].

I'm pretty sure Rambam knew Hebrew as well as Arabic. From Maimonides:

Quote:

Maimonides (1135-1203)

Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, known as Maimonides as well as RaMbaM, was born in Corboba, Spain in 1135 but was forced to leave while still young in order to escape the persecutions of the Almohad berbers. He went to Morocco where Jews were no better treated, and in 1165 went from Morocco to Egypt where he became court doctor and leader of the Jewish community. It is said that he asked to be buried in Tiberias.

The most important of his woks include the Guide to the Perplexed, a philosophical treatise written in Arabic, and the Mishna Torah, a Hebrew compilation of rabbinical prescriptions. These two works have divided scholars. Those loyal to Maimonides are primarily rationalists whereas his adversaries are in general mystics. Maimonides finally won his place as the paradigmatic author of Jewish thought.

Arabic belongs to the Southern Semitic languages, Hebrew to the Western ones. But all Semitic languages belong to the larger group of Afro-Asiatic languages, that probably originated in Ethiopia or thereabouts.

Anat · 01-07-2005, 04:54 PM

It is possible to swear in Hebrew, there are words for all the 'dirty' aspects of human existence, whether propper or slang ones - body parts, excrement, disrespectful professions. But many people do feel more comfortable swearing in other languages.

Which brings us back to Maimonides, who made the claim that Hebrew is worthy of being considered the holy tongue because it has neither the the words for the organs of the man, nor the woman nor the act that causes begetting. I don't know about Medieval Hebrew, but the modern version is just as unholy as any other. Oh, and the HB has pretty 'dirty' expressions, especially in the prophetical works.

Boro Nut · 01-07-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Modern Hebrew is a revived language. I have been told that since it was a holy language, there were no swear words in it, and modern Israelis therefore had to borrow swear words from Arabic.

Norwegian is the hardest language to swear in, so they invariably use English. The best a Norwegian can say in an argument is 'Go wank your pig'. In a cultural context that's like telling an American to go to the pie shop.

Boro Nut

01-07-2005, 03:51 PM	#1
Epinoia Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sodom, USA Posts: 200	Hebrew or Arabic: What came first and how closely are they related? Salaam and shalom are phonetically related words. On the other hand, "dogs" and "pigs" are insults that presumed Arabic and modern Hebrew writers alike hurl at each other in English, so I'm wondering what the words for both are in both languages and whether each is related to its counterpart. I also note Rambam wrote in Arabic in the 11th century. Is this due to some pogrom on the Iberian peninsula or is it that he knew Arabic and not Hebrew? Thanks.

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01-07-2005, 04:32 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There's another thread on this Will the Semitic People Ever Reunite? where I posted this link: Linguistics page on Semitic languages Arabic and Hebrew are in different two branches of the Semitic language family. Neither is derived from the other and I don't know how you could say that one is older. Modern Hebrew is a revived language. I have been told that since it was a holy language, there were no swear words in it, and modern Israelis therefore had to borrow swear words from Arabic. I'm not sure why modern Jews and Palestinians would insult each other in English, but this is not the forum for that discussion. Before the revival of modern Hebrew, Jews spoke the languages of the country they were in, which was often Arabic. Rambam wrote in both Arabic and Hebrew.

01-07-2005, 04:54 PM	#4
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	It is possible to swear in Hebrew, there are words for all the 'dirty' aspects of human existence, whether propper or slang ones - body parts, excrement, disrespectful professions. But many people do feel more comfortable swearing in other languages. Which brings us back to Maimonides, who made the claim that Hebrew is worthy of being considered the holy tongue because it has neither the the words for the organs of the man, nor the woman nor the act that causes begetting. I don't know about Medieval Hebrew, but the modern version is just as unholy as any other. Oh, and the HB has pretty 'dirty' expressions, especially in the prophetical works.

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