andrewcriddle

Employee/Employer existed but, from analogies with other comparable societies, I suspect that the typical farm employee was a temporary worker, hired when extra labour was needed and laid off immediately in slack periods. Slavery meant some form of security, your owner had to feed you even during the slacker parts of the year. Probably your owner was expected to feed you after you got too old to do much useful work. (Old slaves would be expected to make themselves useful but often didn't fully earn their keep.)

Andrew Criddle

Stephen T-B

To quote Little Rock statutes as examples of laws that a community puts in place because of its own particular circumstances (as sschlichter did in an earlier post) illustrates perfectly why we might think a god of the Jews was invoked by the Jewish elite so as to validate the customs of which they approved.
Little Rock was infamous for its instutionalised racism whereby anyone of Aftrican descent was held to be inferior to the Whites; this inferiority being recognised by the Law and it ramifications enforced by it.
These local laws were formulated and upheld by God-fearing, Bible-reading, church-going Christians whose recent ancestors- equally God-fearing, Bible-reading, church-going - had looked to their Scriptures to validate slavery and the inhuman treatment meted out to Black Africans.
If they had emulated the Bronze-age Jewish elite, they would have codified their discriminatory practices by stating: "Thus says the Lord our God: those of black skins, brown skins and off-white skins and with crinkly hair will not share buses, restaurants, bars, cafes, swimming pools, schools, hair dressers or most any retail shopping ouitlets with White Folk, who are the Lord's Chosen."

Chili

But wait a second, you can't blame the the Jewish elite for that but just their inability to read scripture as ignorant self righteous American Christians.

Remember here that the Catholic Curch had (and still has) a literary censorship in force to prevent such actions . . . and this includes many other crimes against humanity to this very day in America where Billy Graham is still praised as their one time national hero.

My point is that if you allow wolves among the flock you can't blame them for their actions . . . and they will be predators to the same degree as the strenght of the wine of God's wrath they drink that was, and still is, poured in the cup of his anger.

Stephen T-B

Oh. Right.
(He said, having not the least idea what any of that meant).

(And reading through my last post, I see a bunch of literals in it including "instutionalised" instead of "institutionalised" - being English, I spell "ise" with an S, not a Z -
and
"...the Law and it ramifications enforced by it" which should, of course be "...the Law and its ramifications enforced by it."

sugarhitman

Not once in the OT did God command Israel to go and kidnap men and sell them into slavery which the Pagans did. These laws are for voluntary slavery in which slaves sold themselves because of poverty. The fact that God established the runaway slave law to allow freedom for slaves who wished to be free shows that God does not support involuntary slavery. "The slave who escapes from his master to you, you may not return him nor oppress him but may live in any of your cities in which he chooses." Deut. 23:15-16. and "You must not oppress the stranger, who comes to live among you." This shows that God desires freedom, those two scriptures DESTROYS this post and similar arguments. Especially during an age when Pagan nations not only enslaved you, but sacrificed you as well. This God is HOLY.

sschlichter

The point was raised because of the seeming non-sensical nature of reading any laws out of context, not as a defense or enditement of the good people of Little Rock, of which I am sure there are many. The nature of slavery in America and Britain before them, is irrelevant. If somehow the bad behavior of certain people lend weight to your argument about OT laws (which it does not) then I would point you to William Wilberforce, whose Christian convictions brought an end to slavery in your country.

~Steve

Sheshbazzar

Now, If slaves were treated so well, would one of you like to give your explanation for the reason why the Scripture would say;
(Lev25:30-40)

Keith&Co.

But other verses rather directly show that he does.
If you offer a slave his freedom, he can go. But if he loves his wife and kids more than a chance to scamper over the hills, you get to keep him forever.

And, apparently, you get to keep his wife and kids no matter what he chooses. Maybe it's only involuntary slavery of adult Hebrew males that are able to pay there way that your god's intolerant of... Slavery of women doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest.

sschlichter

People who stole or had debts they could not pay were sold into slavery. They had fewer rights. Prisoners have fewer rights in our society, does that make it immoral to treat certain people as prisoners and others that should not be treated as prisoners.

No one is arguing that a slave was not treated differently. What is being argued is what was the nature of the treatment and whether it was immoral. There is no command to abuse a slave, no command to capture people as slaves, no abuse of slaves is condoned, only the opposite, punishment of they are abused, death if they are kidnapped, freedom for the slave if they are harmed. foreigners are not to be suppressed, slaves included in sabbath rest, and provisions for the destitute provided.

sschlichter

You are mis-representing the law.

(Exo 21:3) If he came in by himself he will go out by himself; if he had a wife when he came in, then his wife will go out with him.
(Exo 21:4) If his master gave him a wife, and she bore sons or daughters, the wife and the children will belong to her master, and he will go out by himself.
(Exo 21:5) But if the servant should declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,'
(Exo 21:6) then his master must bring him to the judges, and he will bring him to the door or the doorposts, and his master will pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him forever.

Why would the servant be declaring that he loves his master with all these God-condoned beatings that you all are describing?