Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Diogenes the Cynic · 02-05-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach Clips

Okay, I get the general idea that this is all a bunch BS but do any particular Christian sects believe that non-believers will have a chance for salvation during the seven year tribulation following the rapture? Is there none that believe that?

One thing you have to understand is that not all of them believe it will happen before the tribulation. Some think it will happen in the middle, some at the end.

Pre-tribs think people can be saved during the tribulation (and that they will be martyred). Others think that all the good people will be raptured during or even after the tribulation and then the bad people will be burned up.

I think that only pre-tribs believe people can be saved post-rapture, but I'm not positive. To be honest, I've never been able to respect all the various strains of rapture theology enough to study them deeply. One thing I know is that if you ask ten different preachers about this stuff, they'll give you ten different answers. That's because they're pretty much making it up as they go along. They treat Bible passages like Tarot cards. They make them mean whatever they want them to mean.

Astreja · 02-05-2007, 09:23 PM

Well, what about Revelations 20:12-13?

Quote:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This is scheduled for after the dispatching of the devil, the dragon and the false prophet to the Lake O' Fire.

jakejonesiv · 02-06-2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Here's the thing. "Rapture" theology is all non-Biblical tripe invented in the 19th century. Most of the largest Christian denominations (like the RCC, for instance) have no belief in it all. Among those who do, there is no authoritative final word on what is or is not "correct," because it's not based on anything in the Bible and has taken on an entirely plastic, impressionistic character among its advocates. It's what ever any given, self-appointed preacher (or hack novelist) wants it to be.

The most absurd irony of Rapture theology is that its adherents believe they are being scriptural literalists when they are actually torturing the text beyond recognition to fit an externally derived fantasy of endtimes.

Hi Diogenes,

Thank you for your summary. I find it quite helpful.

Jake Jones IV

pob14 · 02-06-2007, 08:38 AM

Yes, some do believe you can be saved after the rapture. For example:

http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq348.html

Roach Clips · 02-06-2007, 02:06 PM

From what I can gather, only the evangelical church teaches the pre trib version of the rapture doctrine. Correct? And they make up only a measly .5% of the American population.

Roach Clips · 02-07-2007, 01:15 PM

Okay, I checked the religious tolerance website And this is what I found.

Quote:

Theologians remain currently divided over the timing of the Rapture. Their beliefs include:

Pre-Tribulation Rapture: (or "pre-trib") The Rapture happens just before the Tribulation, so that believers will not have to experience any of its disruption and pain. Most conservative Christians currently believe this theory.

Mid-Tribulation Rapture: (or "mid-trib") The Rapture happens about 42 months into the Tribulation. Initially, the rule of the Antichrist is relatively benign. He arranges a peace treaty between Israel and surrounding countries. But three and a half years into his reign as world dictator, events take a sudden turn for the worse.

Post-tribulation Rapture: (or post-trib") The faithful experience the horrors and killings of the Tribulation. All suffer and many are killed. Believers are then raptured at the end of the 7 years of horror.

Partial Rapture: some of the faithful are raptured just before the Tribulation; the rest are raptured during or at the end of the Tribulation.

Partial Rapture (a.k.a. Split Rapture): This is a minority belief among conservative Christians. It is a variation of the Pre-trib rapture in which there are two raptures: A pre-trib rapture and resurrection occurs before the tribulation, but only for those born-again Christians who have earned special treatment by having been actively watching, waiting and praying for the rapture.

Those born-again Christians who have not been doing these "works" will be have to endure at least part of the tribulation. They will be raptured partway through or at the end of the tribulation period.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rapture.htm

Who are these "most conservative Christians?" Do they mean the Baptists, Methodists, protestants..? I'm confused :banghead:

squiz · 02-08-2007, 02:10 AM

My understanding is that the doctrine was popularised/invented by John Nelson Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

wargod · 02-08-2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach Clips

Who are these "most conservative Christians?" Do they mean the Baptists, Methodists, protestants..? I'm confused :banghead:

I once saw a movie at the Baptist church I went to (in the singles group) and it followed the pretrib with exceptions - some ministers (and other religious people) were "left behind" to assist in the conversion of those who weren't chosen in the first wave!

It was a spooky movie to say the least.

BigJim · 02-08-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

The Rapture isn't going to happen.

At least, not in my lifetime

EarlOfLade · 02-08-2007, 09:45 AM

RAPTURE A man made story intended to scare the believers out of their money.

And it's working to

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02-06-2007, 08:38 AM	#14
pob14 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 543	Yes, some do believe you can be saved after the rapture. For example: http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq348.html

02-06-2007, 02:06 PM	#15
Roach Clips Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 309	From what I can gather, only the evangelical church teaches the pre trib version of the rapture doctrine. Correct? And they make up only a measly .5% of the American population.

02-08-2007, 02:10 AM	#17
squiz Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Munich Germany Posts: 434	My understanding is that the doctrine was popularised/invented by John Nelson Darby, the founder of the Plymouth Brethren. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

02-08-2007, 09:45 AM	#20
EarlOfLade Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,310	RAPTURE A man made story intended to scare the believers out of their money. And it's working to

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