arnoldo

Here's is another Jewish translation.

arnoldo

Yes, the question of why a loving God would allow evil in the world. The book of Job is primarily about this issue. The sad fact is that everyone who has ever lived on this planet has died. God set up a plan to redeem mankind from sin which led to death and give us eternal life. Why did God allow the holocaust to happen?

spamandham

The claim seems to presuppose that the story is more than just a story. :huh:

arnoldo

True, there also appears to be a condition for the promise also

Johnny Skeptic

Why didn't God give Abraham, or Issac if you wish, all the land of Canaan like he promised to? What was the land promise conditional upon? Did God promise to protect the Jews if they obeyed him? Why would God be so interested in Jews and turn his back on everyone else in the world, and then all of of sudden become interested in the rest of the world when Jesus started preaching?

Regarding "Why did God allow the holocaust to happen?," it is not a question of what God allows, but a question of what God causes. If God had not placed Jews in close proximity to their enemies, no one would have ever bothered them, and they would not have bothered anyone else, i.e., when they murdered the Canaanties. That was unnecessary since God could have given them enough money to legally purchase Canaan from the Canaanites. Exodus 4:11 says that God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb, not allows people to become blind, deaf, and dumb. Exodus 20:5 says that God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, not allows them to be punished for sins that their ancestors committed. God has killed more people with parasites alone than all of the wars in history. The relatively small number of people who Hitler and Stalin killed are not even worth mentioning compared to how many people God has killed with parasites alone. God did not allow parasites to be created. He created them. God did not allow animals to kill each other. He causes animal to kill each other. God created Hurricane Katrina and sent it to New Orleans, not allowed it to create itself and go to New Orleans of its own accord. If God originally created the weather, it could only have done what he deliberately programmed it to do. When the first miscarriges occured, God did not allow them to happen. He cause them to happen. Regarding homosexual sexual identities, God does not allow homosexual sexual identities to happen. He needlessly causes homosexual sexual identities to happen. In addition, God created homosexual behavior in over 200 species of animals and birds.

If a God exists, some of the possbilities are that he is 1) good, 2) evil, 3) amoral, 4) mentally incompentent, or 5) a benevolent but inept bungler who failed in his attempts to create a much better world than the world that he created. An excellent case can be made regarding the possibility of items 2, 3, 4, and 5. Only a very poor case can be made regarding the possibility of item 1. Since the Bible says that God is merciful, and since he unmercifully endorses eternal punishment with parole, since those things contradict each other, that is good evidence that the God of the Bible does not exist unless we were to redine the word "merciful." Even if the God of the Bible does exist, I would never accept a God who endorse eternal punish without parole.
God supposedly wants to save people from their sins, but since he causes everyone to commit sins at least some of time, what he is actually wants to do is to save people from committing sins that he forced them to commit. This is quite natural for God because he causes animals to kill each other, and humans. God accomplishes this in humans and other animals by means of genetics. God genetically causes humans to commit at least some sins, and he genetically cause animals to kill each other, and humans. God does not force people to commit particular sins, but none the less, he forces everyone to commit at least some sins.

If I was able to send the God of the Bible to hell, I would not do so. I would forgive him, and if I was able, I would rehabilitate him. Now that is mercy.

I challenge you to produce credible evidence that it is impossible for God to achieve fair, just, and worthy goals without injuring and killing people and innocent animals with hurricanes, or without empowering someone else to do those things.

Johnny Skeptic

Why would God want Jews to have a homeland and still kill them with hurricanes, plagues etc? Why would God favor Jews? I would never accept a God who played favorites.

Humans frequently place great emphasis upon genetics. A loving God would never do that. A loving God would judge people based upon their behavior, not upon their genetics. The Jews appointed themselves to be God's chosen people.

At any rate, you still have lots of well-educated orthodox Jewish Bible scholars to deal with who agree with you about many things, but have rejected Christianity. I plan to conduct some research and use some of their arguments against you, in which case you would not be able to use any of your current arguments, and you would be forced to debate the New Testament.

arnoldo

Yes, right after God promised Abraham the land he left the land due to a famine in Genesis 12. If the promise was everlasting then Abraham should have remained in the land and not have gone into Egypt.

Johnny Skeptic

Why didn't God give Abraham, or Issac if you wish, all the land of Canaan like he promised to? What was the land promise conditional upon? Did God promise to protect the Jews if they obeyed him? Why would God be so interested in Jews and turn his back on everyone else in the world, and then all of of sudden become interested in the rest of the world when Jesus started preaching?

Regarding "Why did God allow the holocaust to happen?," it is not a question of what God allows, but a question of what God causes. If God had not placed Jews in close proximity to their enemies, no one would have ever bothered them, and they would not have bothered anyone else, i.e., when they murdered the Canaanties. That was unnecessary since God could have given them enough money to legally purchase Canaan from the Canaanites. Exodus 4:11 says that God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb, not allows people to become blind, deaf, and dumb. Exodus 20:5 says that God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, not allows them to be punished for sins that their ancestors committed. God has killed more people with parasites alone than all of the wars in history. The relatively small number of people who Hitler and Stalin killed are not even worth mentioning compared to how many people God has killed with parasites alone. God did not allow parasites to be created. He created them. God did not allow animals to kill each other. He causes animal to kill each other. God created Hurricane Katrina and sent it to New Orleans, not allowed it to create itself and go to New Orleans of its own accord. If God originally created the weather, it could only have done what he deliberately programmed it to do. When the first miscarriges occured, God did not allow them to happen. He cause them to happen. Regarding homosexual sexual identities, God does not allow homosexual sexual identities to happen. He needlessly causes homosexual sexual identities to happen. In addition, God created homosexual behavior in over 200 species of animals and birds.

If a God exists, some of the possbilities are that he is 1) good, 2) evil, 3) amoral, 4) mentally incompentent, or 5) a benevolent but inept bungler who failed in his attempts to create a much better world than the world that he created. An excellent case can be made regarding the possibility of items 2, 3, 4, and 5. Only a very poor case can be made regarding the possibility of item 1. Since the Bible says that God is merciful, and since he unmercifully endorses eternal punishment with parole, since those things contradict each other, that is good evidence that the God of the Bible does not exist unless we were to redine the word "merciful." Even if the God of the Bible does exist, I would never accept a God who endorse eternal punish without parole.

God supposedly wants to save people from their sins, but since he causes everyone to commit sins at least some of time, what he is actually wants to do is to save people from committing sins that he forced them to commit. This is quite natural for God because he causes animals to kill each other, and humans. God accomplishes this in humans and other animals by means of genetics. God genetically causes humans to commit at least some sins, and he genetically cause animals to kill each other, and humans. God does not force people to commit particular sins, but none the less, he forces everyone to commit at least some sins.

If I was able to send the God of the Bible to hell, I would not do so. I would forgive him, and if I was able, I would rehabilitate him. Now that is mercy.

I challenge you to produce credible evidence that it is impossible for God to achieve fair, just, and worthy goals without injuring and killing people and innocent animals with hurricanes, or without empowering someone else to do those things.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: No loving, rational God would inspire disputable prophecies when he could easily inspire indisputable prophecies. He would know that doing so would unnecessarily invite dissent of discourage dissent, thereby undermining his attempts to convince people to believe that he exists.

Why didn't God give Abraham, or Issac if you wish, all the land of Canaan like he promised to? What was the land promise conditional upon? Did God promise to protect the Jews if they obeyed him? Why would God be so interested in Jews and turn his back on everyone else in the world, and then all of of sudden become interested in the rest of the world when Jesus started preaching?

Regarding "Why did God allow the holocaust to happen?," it is not a question of what God allows, but a question of what God causes. If God had not placed Jews in close proximity to their enemies, no one would have ever bothered them, and they would not have bothered anyone else, i.e., when they murdered the Canaanties. That was unnecessary since God could have given them enough money to legally purchase Canaan from the Canaanites. Exodus 4:11 says that God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb, not allows people to become blind, deaf, and dumb. Exodus 20:5 says that God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed, not allows them to be punished for sins that their ancestors committed. God has killed more people with parasites alone than all of the wars in history. The relatively small number of people who Hitler and Stalin killed are not even worth mentioning compared to how many people God has killed with parasites alone. God did not allow parasites to be created. He created them. God did not allow animals to kill each other. He causes animal to kill each other. God created Hurricane Katrina and sent it to New Orleans, not allowed it to create itself and go to New Orleans of its own accord. If God originally created the weather, it could only have done what he deliberately programmed it to do. When the first miscarriges occured, God did not allow them to happen. He cause them to happen. Regarding homosexual sexual identities, God does not allow homosexual sexual identities to happen. He needlessly causes homosexual sexual identities to happen. In addition, God created homosexual behavior in over 200 species of animals and birds.

If a God exists, some of the possbilities are that he is 1) good, 2) evil, 3) amoral, 4) mentally incompentent, or 5) a benevolent but inept bungler who failed in his attempts to create a much better world than the world that he created. An excellent case can be made regarding the possibility of items 2, 3, 4, and 5. Only a very poor case can be made regarding the possibility of item 1. Since the Bible says that God is merciful, and since he unmercifully endorses eternal punishment with parole, since those things contradict each other, that is good evidence that the God of the Bible does not exist unless we were to redine the word "merciful." Even if the God of the Bible does exist, I would never accept a God who endorse eternal punish without parole.

God supposedly wants to save people from their sins, but since he causes everyone to commit sins at least some of time, what he is actually wants to do is to save people from committing sins that he forced them to commit. This is quite natural for God because he causes animals to kill each other, and humans. God accomplishes this in humans and other animals by means of genetics. God genetically causes humans to commit at least some sins, and he genetically cause animals to kill each other, and humans. God does not force people to commit particular sins, but none the less, he forces everyone to commit at least some sins.

If I was able to send the God of the Bible to hell, I would not do so. I would forgive him, and if I was able, I would rehabilitate him. Now that is mercy.

I challenge you to produce credible evidence that it is impossible for God to achieve fair, just, and worthy goals without injuring and killing people and innocent animals with hurricanes, or without empowering someone else to do those things.

Minimalist

Roman Emperors at the time were worshipped as gods...and unlike ole Yahweh, they had the power to actually do something.