aa5874

Who is this James? James the Son of Zebedee, James the son of Alphaeus, James the brother of the carpenter, James the brother of the carpenters's son or James the brother of Judas?

And in which century did this James write? Is James his real name and how come this James does not write or give some information about himself?

This author called James never mentioned any Paul, any epistle to any Church, or the city where he wrote this epistle.

James? Who is James?

arnoldo

I frankly don't see any contradiction between James, who perhaps was a brother of Jesus, and Paul. From your brief comment of "faith vs works" I am guesssing you are making a gross oversimplification that Paul stated you ony have to "believe" and ignore the people around you who are in need. Perhaps you believe Paul wanted christians to become hermits and go live in a cave and mediatate? Nothing could be further from the truth. As you know Paul was brought up a strict jew from the tribe of benjamin and he frequently wrestled with the issue of continuing to observe the Jewish traditions (works) vs grace. It is true some early christians viewed "grace" as a license to neglect "loving your neighbor as yourself" and Paul frequently wrote in reference to this issue. James also addressed this issue in perfect harmony with Paul and the gospel writers for that matter. If I may I submit the following verses from James and Paul for your consideration.

arnoldo

James, the fictional character which was invented in the late 2nd century early third century :wave:

Jeffrey Gibson

Is there a prima facie difference on the issue of "faith and works" between what we find in Chapter 2 verse one in the NT writing called James (which is attributed to the brother of Jesus) and what we find in Chapter 3 vvs. 20-22 and Chapter 3 vvs. 27-28 in the NT work called the Epistle to the Romans (which is self attributed to a servant of Christ Jesus named Paul), or not?

These writings are in the NT, are they not?

Jeffrey

aa5874

When did this James die, before the epistle to the Romans was written? Did this James ever hear about the epistle to the Romans? This James may be responding to an apocryphal writing in the 4th century.

Who is James and who was he responding to, or was the epistle to the Romans a response to this James in the 5th century?

There are no specific details whatsoever about the authors of the NT, just a bunch of first names and vague statements.

Who is James?

Jeffrey Gibson

You are guessing wrong.

Nope.

He did? That's not what we find in Philippians 3, is it. Nor, so far as I can tell, did Paul, or any first century Jew, think that there was a Jewish tradition of "works vs grace". That's a As Ed Sanders. G.F. Moore, Jimmy Dunn and others have have shown, that's an anachronism imposed upon Paul and 1st century Judaism that is drawn from what they Sanders and Dunn call "the Lutheran stereotype" of first century Judaism.

Nothing from James - even in the horrendous Young's version --is here.

But more importantly, this is not an answer to my question. I do not want to know that you don't see any contradiction between Paul and James. I want to know how you come to this conclusion, specifically the conclusion that there is no prima facie contradiction between the discourses on faith and works in James 2 and Romans 3.

Mind you, I'm not saying your conclusion is wrong. But I am at a loss to know how you get to it. It certainly doesn't seem to be on the basis of a study of the text or of critical commentaries on James.

May I ask what the nature and extent of your familiarity with NT studies is?

Jeffrey

arnoldo

In the NT there is a certain amount of tension between those who follow the orthodox jewish faith and this new sect which is called "The Way." For a Jew, it was paramount to be accepted into the jewish community and any follower of Jesus was frequently excommunicated from the local jewish community. Even within the Apostles there was tension between those who continued to stricty follow the Jewish traditions (especially in reference to the TEMPLE) and those living by "faith/grace." Don't you find it clever that the NT writers wrote "as if" the jewish temple still existed when they wrote the various letters in the NT?

Toto

This is an official moderator advisory: Say what you mean and mean what you say. Please stop posting caricatures of your opponents' arguments, as if they are so outlandish you don't have to refute them.

Any more posts like this will be treated as disruptive.

arnoldo

Ok, I can't read minds across the internet so thanks for the clarification.
"Lutheran stereotype". . Hmmm. . . interesting concept, however Judaism was greatly dependant on "works" thus there was a tension within the early sect of Judaism, which later became known as christianity, in reference to continuing to observe those Jewish traditions.

Simple, apples and oranges, Romans 3 is writing in reference to following the mosaic law and James 2 is writing in reference to the comandment of "loving your neighbor as yourself."

arnoldo

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