Freethought & Rationalism Archive

show_no_mercy · 05-12-2006, 04:50 PM

So I'm working as an intern at the Boal Mansion Museum in Boalsburg which has the Columbus family's chapel on its grounds.

It states that Joseph Columbus was given two peices of the True Cross in 1817. As most people probably know, the "True Cross" is the cross that Jesus himself was supposedly crucified on. This set off some skeptic alarms, and I thought to myself "that can't possibly be true".

I deduced that it is highly unlikely that these pieces are not from Jesus' cross because Jesus was supposedly crucified in 33 CE and Rome didn't care about Jesus until Constantine converted, which was around 300 CE - and at that point, they didn't even use the cross as a symbol of Jesus. Why would Romans keep track of which cross was used to crucify some random insurrectionist 300 years ago? They probably reused the cross to execute other criminals since then.

So why would anyone believe that these two pieces of wood in Boalsburg, PA are pieces of the cross that Jesus was crucified on?

Toto · 05-12-2006, 05:13 PM

Picture here: http://www.boalmuseum.com/chapel.htm and here

Quote:

The Columbus Chapel is the most important Columbus collection on the North American continent. It was part of the Columbus Castle in Asturias, Spain, and was inherited in 1908 by Mathilde de Lagarde Boal from her Aunt Victoria Columbus and imported to Boalsburg in 1909 by her husband, Colonel Theodore Davis Boal.

Among the contents of the chapel are an Admiral's Desk which belonged to Christopher Columbus, European oil paintings and statues from the 14th through 17th centuries and two pieces of the True Cross, which were given to the Columbus family in 1817 by the Bishop of Leon in Spain.

There is a copy of a pamplet from the museum here:

Quote:

In the 5th century, Toribius, a young Spanish nobleman, went to the Holy Land, where, under Juvenal, he became keeper of the Sacred Relics which St. Helena had brought together in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Confronted with the danger of a capture of Jerusalem, Juvenal instructed Toribius to take the Left Arm of the Cross of the Savior and other important Relics to a place of safety. Toribius carried them first to Rome, where he received orders from the Pope, Saint Leo, to take the Left Arm of the Cross to Spain. Toribius placed it in the cathedral of his own city of Astorga, of which he became Bishop. There the Sacred Relic remained until the 7th century, when the Moorish invasion threatened Astorga. Its keepers removed it, together with the body of Toribius, to San Martin in the northerly kingdom of Leon. Toribius was canonized as Saint Toribius of Astorga, and San Martin was renamed Santo Toribio de Liebana, in honor of the Saint and of the Left Arm of the True Cross revered there.

Early in the 19th century the Bishop of Leon, Ignacio Ramon de Roda, went to Santo Toribio de Liebana (in his diocese) and asked permission of the Priory of the Benedictine Monks to remove a portion of the Left Arm of the Cross. This they granted, and on bended knees he detached a portion, part of which he sent to Don Joachim and Don Felix Columbus for their family chapel. It is the part of the True Cross, arranged in the form of a cross in the reliquary and presented to the Columbus brothers by the Bishop of Leon, as certified by his signed and sealed document dated 1817, which may now be seen in the Columbus Family Chapel at the Boal Estate.

Are you saying that you don't find this whole story credible? ??

In any case, this is presented as something related to Columbus, not Jesus. I tend to doubt that the Catholic Church would bet any real money on the authenticity of these relics.

Toto · 05-12-2006, 05:28 PM

More proof for you skeptics out there:

http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/0005/ZE000508.html

Quote:

The Monastery, which is located in the Cantabrian Mountains in northern Spain, is one of the four places of Christianity that, together with Rome, Jerusalem, and Santiago of Compostela, has the privilege of perpetual indulgences. During the Middle Ages, Liebana had its own Holy Road. Initially, the Monastery was dedicated to St. Martin of Tours, but its name changed in the 12th century.

It is perhaps the oldest Shrine in Spain, founded prior to the 6th century. According to tradition, the Monastery venerates that largest piece of the "Lignum Crucis," discovered, according to tradition, by St. Helen in Jerusalem, a section of Jesus' true Cross. Liebana houses the left arm of the Cross, which is kept on a gilded silver reliquary. On April 16, 1961, the Franciscan Fathers, Custodians of the Holy Places, were entrusted with the relic's safekeeping. They promote the devotion to the Wood of the Cross.

In 1958 a scientific investigation carried out by Madrid's Forestry Research Institute, concluded that the relic is of a coniferous wood that is very common in Palestine, and could be older than 2,000 years.

According to tradition, this relic is that part of the cross that St. Helena left in Jerusalem. From there, St. Toribius, Custodian of the Holy Places, took it to the Spanish city of Astorga, when Persians threatened an invasion in 614. When the Moors invaded Spain in 711, the relic was hidden along with others in a fold on Mount Viorna in the Liebana Valley, next to St. Toribius' body. Immediately, the Monastery became a place to be visited by pilgrims on their way to Compostela. Documents dated 1507 state that, "since time immemorial" the Jubilee is celebrated every time the saint's feast-day falls on a Sunday. The chronicles also mention frequent miraculous cures here.

Toto · 05-12-2006, 05:42 PM

True Cross

05-12-2006, 04:50 PM	#1
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	The "True Cross" So I'm working as an intern at the Boal Mansion Museum in Boalsburg which has the Columbus family's chapel on its grounds. It states that Joseph Columbus was given two peices of the True Cross in 1817. As most people probably know, the "True Cross" is the cross that Jesus himself was supposedly crucified on. This set off some skeptic alarms, and I thought to myself "that can't possibly be true". I deduced that it is highly unlikely that these pieces are not from Jesus' cross because Jesus was supposedly crucified in 33 CE and Rome didn't care about Jesus until Constantine converted, which was around 300 CE - and at that point, they didn't even use the cross as a symbol of Jesus. Why would Romans keep track of which cross was used to crucify some random insurrectionist 300 years ago? They probably reused the cross to execute other criminals since then. So why would anyone believe that these two pieces of wood in Boalsburg, PA are pieces of the cross that Jesus was crucified on?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-12-2006, 05:42 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	True Cross

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.