hallq

I hearby challenge any Christian on these boards to debate me on the historicity of the resurrection. I propse using, as a blueprint, the protocols for the recently-begun "gap theory" debate (for which a peanut gallery was recently set up in BC&H).

Toto

Please use this thread in the Formal Debates forum to accept or discuss this challenge:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=160247

Hallandale

Aren't there any Christians on this forum?
1Corinthians 15:17 ........
if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2Timothy 4:2
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

1Peter 3:15
sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

If there are any real Christians on this forum......your faith has been challenged. Can you defend....or is your faith worthless?

Hallandale

According to Christian Theology, all mankind are sinners, and are thereby sentenced to death for their sins. But Christians say that Jesus died in our place and redeemed us from the penalty of death.
I think that this was just an invention by Jesus' followers to explain away his unforseen death at the hands of the Romans.
According to the Hebrew Scriptures, (OT), no one can redeem another who is sentenced to death.
Leviticus 27:29
29'No one who may have been set apart among men shall be ransomed; he shall surely be put to death. NAS
29 " 'No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; he must be put to death NIV
Jewish commentary on this verse.
29. Any devoting of a person who has been devoted, need not be redeemed [for] he is to be put to death.
Any devoting… who has been devoted [This verse refers to] someone who [has been sentenced to death, and, as he] is going out to be executed, another person declares, “I hereby make a personal commitment [to pay] his valuation!” his words have no validity. — [Arachin 6b]
[And why not? Because] he is to be put to death i.e., he is on his way to be executed, and therefore, he “cannot be redeemed”-he has no market value [as a slave] or any valuation.

If Jesus couldn't die for your sins this charade casts doubt on any supposed resurrection.
As the Apostle Paul says.....1Corinthians 15:17
if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

Christians ..You have been Challenged to debate...Where are you?

Zeichman

I think many iidb Christians, myself included, wouldn't care to participate because we don't believe the ressurection involved a reanimated corpse, nor that the earliest Christians believed that such was the case. Because there would probably be little disagreement between me and you on the nature of the resurrection, or the cause for the rise of Pauline sotierology, I'll pass on the debate.

Hallandale

Are you saying that you believe that Jesus rose as a spirit rather than as a fleshly body?

Febble

Speaking for myself (heretical catholic), I'll just say I don't know, and that I don't think it actually matters much which. I might debate the theology of the atonement, one day, that could be fun. But the historicity (or otherwise) of the resurrection doesn't keep me awake at night.

Zeichman

Sure. The language in 1 Cor 15 certainly implies that Paul's view was such.

Hallandale

Guess What Zeichman........I agree with you....1Corinthians 15 certainly implies that Paul thought Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body.
But how would Paul know? He never met Jesus.
But Peter also agrees with you Zeichman....1Peter 3:18
18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

But Luke says that Jesus rose with a fleshly body...Luke 24:39
39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

How can we possibly accept any evidence that Jesus was resurrected when Jesus' followers cannot even agree on what kind of body he rose with?

HALLQ wants to debate a Christian on the resurrection. Who will step up?

Chris Weimer

That's a little unfair. Luke was writing much later than Paul, at least 40 to 50 years afterwards, and that is 60 to 70 years after Jesus' alleged resurrection. The debate on Jesus' resurrection is over on account of the resurrection being physically impossible by examination of available evidence.