Dean Anderson

Over at another board, I am in a discussion of Jephthah and the sacrifice of his daughter.

Although most Bibles have Judges 11:31 translated along these lines (to use the ASV as an example...)

... the apologists there are saying that the bolded part should be an OR, not an AND. They claim that the AND is a mistranslation, and that Jephthah didn't sacrifice his daughter - he only sacrificed her virginity (i.e. she took a vow of celibacy).

Now personally, I don't think that this apologetic holds water, given the context of the verse - but I was wondering what the Hebrew said.

How ambiguous is it about what was sacrificed?

spin

Normal Hebrew "or" is 'W, (alef-waw).
Normal Hebrew "and" isW-, (waw, attached to the addition).

The text uses the second. I can't see any reason to think that the waw should be read as an "or" from the language of the text. Good rule: if there is a choice between two meanings and the context doesn't help you choose, go for the more common of the two. And the reason why I say this is that W- has in fact been translated as an "or" on a few occasions -- it suits the English better --, but this is really a difference in between the two languages. Context helped the translator make the choice on those occasions, but as the context is not helpful, we should go for the simplest interpretation of the W-, ie "and".


spin

Wily Coyote

what's your source, please? Don't have access to a dictionary here at work.

spin

Sorry, but source for what exactly 'W and W- or the other stuff I said? If the former, Try BDB (the standard Hebrew reference lexicon). If the latter, it's general linguistics. Non standard understandings of terms need contexts which justify them.


spin

post tenebras lux

With reference to the OP, in cases like this I prefer to trust the people whose book it is, via a jewish Hebrew/English side-by-side translation and then ask any Christians, or whoever, to explain why they would have got it wrong/lie about it.

In this case, my translation (from the Masoretic Text) is an AND.
From this page www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/0711.htm

Unfortunately though, I notice that Young's literal translation has it as an OR
But, interestingly, Young's implies that he promised to sacrifice everything that came out: 'that which at all cometh out from the doors of my house to meet me' and not just the first thing. But then so does H/E translation with: 'that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me'. No mention of only the first thing.

What else, but humans or your dog, would be expected to come out and meet you?

Maybe he was just hoping to get rid of his wife without a messy divorce? :Cheeky:
After all, she'd only borne him one child, and a girl child at that.

Slightly off-topic Pervy, how do your debatees handle the context, especially the end of the chapter? OK, so she goes off into the hills to bewail the fact that she's never going to 'get it', that she'll always have 'an itch she's not allowed to scratch', but why would 'the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year' if she'd only taken a vow of chastity?

Was it that unique/terrible a thing?

Personally, I suspect she went off into the hills so that she could discretely 'get it' before being sacrificed.

Luxie

Jimmy Higgins

Yeah, you can consider this thread resurrected. It came up over at another board. I find the Christian apologetic quite funny on it.
From what I've read, according to the jpholding crowd, the word isn't "lament" but celebrate. This is strange, seeing I can't find a bible translation anywhere that says anything but "commensurate", "mourn" or "lament".

post tenebras lux

Hi necrophile, thanks for the intel from the enemy encampment.

Changing the meaning of words so that they become their opposite is hardly a new MO, but it still takes me by surprise each time they do it.

Jimmy Higgins

The other argument is that it is against Levite law to sacrifice a woman.

Here is jpholding's biblical "criticism" on the issue.

post tenebras lux

Thanks, it's printed off for the pub later on.