Stacey Melissa

I'm an atheist and I can handle criticism of my ideas plenty well enough, but I can hardly stand to post on TheologyWeb, due to its abundance of Christian assholes who seem to be unable to criticize atheists' posts without doing it in asshole fashion.

Queen of Swords

That's the question you should ask of christians who come here and insult us, then act surprised and wounded at not being forgiven and welcomed with open arms.

Are you equally amazed at the way christians attack us? You should be, since christians are supposedly exhorted by the founder of their religion to be meek, gentle, peacemakers, etc.

And what "evidence" would that be?

Excuse me, I have to wipe the tears of grief from my eyes. Seriously, though, if you see absolutely nothing wrong with the far more closed-minded and equally mean approach of Jesus Loves You, then you're operating from bias, rather than from an objective position.

Then why did you bother to come to her defense? If you really felt that she was in a position of power, with the sword of the spirit and the whole armor of god bravely deflecting the slings and arrows of outrageous reason, then you could have stayed out of it. Actions speak louder than words, unsure.

<snip a lot of rambling>

This reminds me of Seinfeld : "They're real, and they're spectacular!"

A lot of people have made similar prayers both on this discussion board and in real life. Needless to say, none of these prayers have ever worked (for me, anyway).

Could you also pray for world peace while you're at it?

But if you had read your bible, you would have come across the part where Jesus says that you should be happy at being persecuted for your faith. Granted, he maybe didn't consider going into a discussion forum, being nasty and then watching the regulars give you a less than loving reception as persecution, but still, the principle stands. So shouldn't you be happy that your sister is being "bludgeoned"?

What melodramatic language, by the way. Do you really consider criticism to be "bludgeoning"?

As I said to Jesus Loves You, look to the plank in thine own eye. Correct your "sister" before you try to do the same for us.

I doubt it. But bye-bye.

quasi-sapien

Jesus Loves You, it might be helpful to remember that this site serves as a forum primarily for non-believers. Atheists are a relatively small minority in an overwhelmingly theist society, and it's sometimes difficult to express their viewpoint freely and openly without some justifiable fear of being ostracized. This forum serves as a venue where atheists can find mutual support, exchange ideas, and ( let's be honest ) in some cases, vent their frustration and anger. It's easy to become fearful if you are vastly outnumbered, though I think some of the concerns expressed here ( if honestly held ) are disproportionate and exaggerated; bordering on paranoia.

How would you feel if an atheist entered your church during services, and proclaimed that all the people filling the pews were delusional fools for believing in an ancient mythology? Implying that someone is going to hell isn't an effective motivation for them to effect change unless they already fear its' torments. There are innumerable reasons to reject Christianity and the Bible, based on logical and moral inconsistencies. Of course, there are also a number of reasons to reject string theory, given the fact it remains untestable, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't valid. One of the great things about our secular society, is the fact that its' members have the freedom to practice any religion they choose, and by definition, that also means they must have freedom *from* belief, if they desire, as well.

Let me ask you a question.....OK, a few. Do you believe that a person who consistently acted with loving kindness, concern, and compassion for others throughout their life.....but never worshipped God, would really be consigned to the fires of hell? Does that really make a whit of sense? How about a child born in a Muslim country, who's faith differs from your own. Is that innocent child doomed, simply because of their geographical and cultural origin? If an infant hasn't yet been baptized, and expires from accident or illness, is the stain of original sin sufficient to condemn them for eternity? Is damnation in this case, simply a matter of unfortunate timing?

JesusLovesYou

[QUOTE]Ok, let me see if I get this right I am delusional, because I believe in God. Who by the way is the one who says you are going to hell if you don' believe. Yeah I know me pointing that out is preaching to you.

You tell us we are just going to live then die and that is it, that is your belief. So am I to get all bent out of shape because you are preaching that belief? Wouldn't that make you a bigot by putting all Christians into one class/group? Some on here have hinted, if not just came right out and said that if I am a Christian I must believe this or that. So since I don't believe that way, and it upsets me when I am put in the same group as some of these people, does that not make you a bigot for saying or thinking it? See to me that is a double standard.


[QUOTE]I don't believe I was really saying anything about being persecuted, have to look back and see. I did have people PM me and say they couldn't believe the way I was being treated. Not sure I said anything. I also saw where someone posted saying they couldn't believe the way I was treated, but again I don't even know the person, and didn't have anything to do with what they felt they saw.

I do find it interesting how someone ask me a question, and I answer it. Then half a dozen people or more start yelling where is your proof, you have no proof, etc., when all I was doing was answering a question. I don't think I even mention about hell, till frankly I got tired of the name calling and put downs. I kept telling people I had just came here to see what all you guys talk about on your site, after hearing about it on a Christian board from an atheist there. I kept saying I was just passing through, but they kept asking questions, so to not be rude, I kept answering. I wasn't even wanting to debate anything, I was just trying to answer the questions that were ask of me. Then I was planning to go back to the site I normally am at. I even told them if they really wanted me to leave like some were telling me to do, all they had to do was stop asking me questions, but I didn't want to be what I call rude, and just ignore the post and leave. They just kept asking questions and then criticizing me. :huh: :huh: :huh:

Jesus Loves You

Diogenes the Cynic

JLY

What is the source for your assertion that "God said" non-believers go to hell. Where and when did God say that and how do you know?

Also, if it's so important to God that people believe in him (so important that he will torture good people forever if they don't) then why doesn't he offer some sort of proof that he exists? As it stands now, he just expects people to GUESS which religious belief out of an infinite number of hypothetical possibilities is the correct one, and if you guess wrong, he will burn you in hell for all eternity, regardless of what kind of human being you are. It's the equivalent of God asking what number he's thinking of between one and infinity. It's all the more ludicrous to say that this God "loves me" but if I don't believe what he wants me to believe he'll set me on fire for all eternity.

You have to understand that you can't expect people to take you seriously about "Jesus loving us" when in the next breath you say he wants inflict eternal torture on us and upon untold millions of others whose only crime was to guess wrong and worship the wrong God. It is impossible to reconcile a God who is good and loving with a concept of eternal torture. If God is good, there is no Hell. If there is a Hell, God is not good.

JesusLovesYou

[QUOTE]
First off, as I said in another post, I didn't even mention the devil, hell etc. till after several post of questions mixed with put downs and name calling. In fact I had put scriptures of Jesus/Love, which was removed before to many even saw it because I had put them on two different threads.(not knowing I couldn't do that) I had just noticed it was gone and was going to just check at the other thread, and answer any questions they might have. If no questions then I was leaving.

I agree with your last statement.

[QUOTE]
I numbered your questions so I could just answer them by number to try and avoid confusion, I hope you don't mind?

1. Yes, I do. I can't tell you why because that will be considered preaching, so will just leave the answer at yes.

2. The issue is not how kind or nice we are, and again I don't know how to answer cause I will be told I am preaching.

3. I will say that I believe that God makes Himself known to all no matter where they are born, and that his ways are not our ways. I believe everyone will have a chance to make the decision to believe, and only God knows the heart. How He presents Himself to someone other then say Americans is not known by me. I believe that a person from a different culture will be drawn by the Holy Spirit, and have the chance to believe.

4. No, and I don't believe that you have to be baptized to be saved.

5. Again I don't believe if an infant passes away that they are condemned. The original sin is what makes us have to die, but it is our sins and what we do about them that decides heaven or hell.

Sorry to all that think I am preaching I just didn't know how to answer the questions anyother way.

If you want me to answer more completely let me know, and I will PM you, so that they won't think I am preaching.

Jesus Loves You

Queen of Swords

You had your fair share of "put downs" in your posts to us, you know. In other words, you gave as good as you got, so it's not like you're a completely innocent person who didn't do anything to provoke anyone.

And is that your justification for the subtle threats of hell? If someone replies to your own put-downs in a similar vein, the big gun gets fired? I don't see anything in the bible which would justify this stance, but perhaps you could cut and paste some backup?

I think it's just great that you would not believe this, but unfortunately it's not what the bible says. According to Jesus, one has to believe in him to be saved - "no man comes to the father except through me". Since infants do not believe in him, why are they not condemned?

Gunnaheave

The topic here has long since lost out to pleasures of personal attacks. Thread closed.