FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-01-2006, 11:09 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,674
Default Why Pilate?

Assuming that Jesus was a myth, and Mark crafted the story of his gospel, why is Pilate cast in the story?

Was Pilate a part of oral tradition by the time already, or was this a Markian invention?

If Pilate was already part of oral tradition, then why?
Malachi151 is offline  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:53 AM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,719
Default

Perhaps that question comes down to: why at that time and place. We know why the place, since the Jesus story is a Jewish offshoot. So, if we know why at that time we'll know why Pilate, because that's who was governor.

Gerard
gstafleu is offline  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:07 PM   #3
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Pilate was a known character from Philo and Josephus. If "Mark" was working from a distance in time and space and using literary sources, Pilate would work as a character.
Toto is offline  
Old 11-01-2006, 01:17 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Pilate was a known character from Philo and Josephus. If "Mark" was working from a distance in time and space and using literary sources, Pilate would work as a character.
This is my thought as well, except that Josephus' writings on Pilate that we know of come after the generally agreed upon date of Mark, and we can't be sure that Mark read Philo, though I think that he did. So, these are maybes.

But I think that the time and place issue brought up by gstafleu makes sense.

My view is that Mark was written shortly after the destruction in 70, and was in fact prompted by that event. So the question then becomes of time, or perhaps something else?

Now I ask, if as I suspect, Mark is really an allegory ABOUT the destruction of Judea, did Pilate set anything in motion that led ultimately to the conflict in 64-66 that led to the destruction of Judea?
Malachi151 is offline  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:14 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Bernardino, Calif.
Posts: 5,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Assuming that Jesus was a myth, and Mark crafted the story of his gospel, why is Pilate cast in the story?
For the same reason that if you were telling a story about something happening 50 years ago and your story had a role for the president of the United States, you would cast Eisenhower in your story.
Doug Shaver is offline  
Old 11-02-2006, 05:34 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,674
Default

Then we are back to what gstafleu said, why is the story set in this time?
Malachi151 is offline  
Old 11-02-2006, 07:35 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Then we are back to what gstafleu said, why is the story set in this time?
It has to be before 70, so we have a terminus ante quem (always wanted to use that term ). But the TAQ is a bit far away.

It would also be nice to have a terminus post quem. Does Josephus give any clues as to when the Jewish revolt started to pick up steam? Were there any precipitating events? Maybe Herod (the one who died in -4) was an extra nasty character who really started things rolling?

Gerard
gstafleu is offline  
Old 11-02-2006, 07:50 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Then we are back to what gstafleu said, why is the story set in this time?
To explain the emergence of the "Jesus" movement shortly afterwards ?

Jiri
Solo is offline  
Old 11-02-2006, 03:32 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: On the wing, waiting for a kick
Posts: 2,558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
Then we are back to what gstafleu said, why is the story set in this time?
Just a wild guess. Because that's when it occured?
Tigers! is offline  
Old 11-02-2006, 03:42 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstafleu View Post
It has to be before 70, so we have a terminus ante quem (always wanted to use that term ). But the TAQ is a bit far away.

It would also be nice to have a terminus post quem. Does Josephus give any clues as to when the Jewish revolt started to pick up steam? Were there any precipitating events? Maybe Herod (the one who died in -4) was an extra nasty character who really started things rolling?

Gerard
Well, the Jewish revolt that I know of was in 63, but perhaps more occurred earlier, I just know know. It seems from Philo that the Jews and Pilate didn't get along well. There is also the business of John the Baptist. They both lived during the same time, so dependence on either one of them meant that the other had to be in the story, so perhaps Pilate is in the story just because JtB had to be in the story, putting Pilate in by necessity.

Mark doesn't say anything about Jesus' birth, so I doubt that 4 BCE had anything to do with anything.

I would say its probably because he wanted to include JtB, which necessitated Pilate.
Malachi151 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:44 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.