ericmurphy

Also, Dave: sedimentation is nothing like two miles deep in oceanic abyssal plains. Further, it gets shallower as one approaches mid-oceanic ridges. Now, given that the continents supposedly separated after the flood was over, why should there be any sediment at the bottoms of the oceanic basins? Wasn't all sediment flood-deposited? Or maybe only some of it was? Maybe you don't know one way or another?

Occam's Aftershave

Wanna see Dave tuck tail and run away fast again?

Ask him about the two dozen+ sequentially buried mature fossil forests in Yellowstone National Park, each with intact root structures a layer of paleosols between.


IDEAL SECTION THROUGH 2,000 FEET OF BEDS OF SPECIMEN RIDGE,
SHOWING SUCCESSION OF BURIED FOREST.

Just like the Mazda commercial...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM !

It's almost as effective an AFDave repellant as C14 cal curves.

mung bean

Don't forget my suggested modification of his experiment to account for the spider tracks in the Coconino.
Strangely he never reported performing that one.

deadman_932

Eric, eric, eric...don't you SEE?!?! The oceans didn't EXIST at the time...the continents needed to split up first, each racing to their respective positions.

They did this at an alarming rate, Dave says, rushing at 160 KPH or something...

Personally, I still love the image of a tiny penguin bravely perched on the bow of Antarctica, the spray of water rising high as the continent speedboats its way south.

Steviepinhead

Well, so, even if we imagine the continents as, um, hot-rodding bulldozers, they've gotta make their move at some point in the sequence of Flud-related events.

If it's toward the end of Teh Flud Time, then presumably most of the two-mile thick sedimentary blanket has begun to settle out of the unknown depth of water of unknown salinity (let's ignore the even more basic temperature/pressure/kinetic energy problems...).

In the settling-out-precedes-continental-bulldozing model, then maybe (without "thinking" about it too hard) one could postulate that the "left-behind" ocean basins would open up after the settling out, and be relatively sediment-free. But what about the big circum-Supercontinental ocean that would have surrounded the original Ur-continent before breakup? Not only would it necessarily had to have received the two-mile thick silt-out in the first place, before the bulldozers got to revvin', but as the continents broke up, split apart, and began encroaching upon that pre-existing ocean, huge "leading edge" lenses of sediment would've been plowed up (again, we'll ignore the heat generated by continents moving so quickly, the energy and mechanism needed to get them moving that quickly in the first place, and, er, physical reality in general...) or plowed under/subducted.

Well, of course, in certain areas, one does see such indicia of continental motion.

But in nothing remotely like the quantities/realities of what we'd see if a continental plate had really plowed rapidly into an ocean basin which had just recently received an unconsolidated water-logged two-mile thick blanket of sediment. Why isn't there a huge slate/mudstone/whatever-stone "bow wave" off the west coast of the US? Instead of the relatively-modest Coast Range, which is far from continuous?

Why not the mudstone bow-wave off South America's west coast, instead of those darned decidedly-not-sedimentary Andes?

And why can't the frickin' Creationist geologist--the ones who are SOI much smarter than all the poor "darwinian" geologists (yeah, I know: !?!--the poor dumb guys ones who actually get paid for finding the oil and coal and minerals and putting together the geological maps)--actually put together a coherent model of which continent moved where, how far, how fast, with what results in terms of specific orogenies and subductions and faults and dike-swarms and mineral species?

You know, like the dumb guys do, who have traced certain continental-collision-built mountain ranges to their current widespread "destinations" and traced back the super-continental/dispersed continental cycle for several iterations...?

All of which somehow consiliently manages to fit with which species spread--or didn't spread--where and when?

Meanwhile, the Creo-guys can't even agree on a date for an event as recent as the flood. Or which layer or layers it left behind.

It's just plain annoying, it is.

Even if I wanted to believe this sweet Sunday-School-meeting-house cartoon of geology, the lackluster performance of the Creo guys in getting a tenable, datable, testable model together would give me considerable pause.

And, I mean, they had a head start!!

Amaleq13

As fun as it might be, let's have less ridicule and more substantive argument.

Thanks in advance,


Doug aka Amaleq13, BC&H moderator

ericmurphy

Yes, I do see. And hence I wonder how much sediment could have piled up on the abyssal plains in less than 5,000 years. Further, since the oceanic crust at the continental margins is only 24 hours older than the oceanic crust just outside of spreading centers, I'm wondering why there should be any gradient in the depth of sediment at all.

I feel kind of bad for the guy who started this thread. It's been totally hijacked by Dave in an attempt to show that the existence of the pyramids is no obstacle to a flood having occurred in the middle of the 2nd Dynasty.

Steviepinhead

And if, for some reason, the bulldozers got their drag-strip racing act together at the beginning of Flud Time--as a result of the breaking open of teh "fountains of the deep" or some such--then the sediment would've rained down on top of them, in addition to the bow-wave effect...

No Canadian Shield there: all the continental plates would be covered in a fairly-equally thick two-mile thick pile of sedimentary layers. Not the sometimes-it's-there, sometimes-it's-bare, sometimes-it's-thicker (much!), sometimes-it's-thinner hodgepodge which the poor dumb guys can explain but the Creo-geos just seem to have noting whatsoever to say about...

Hey, maybe some of those dancey-prancey buckin'-bronco bulldozer continents just reared up and shook the sediment off: not just drag-racin' continents. but continents doin' Teh "Airs Above Teh Ground"!

Hmmm... After all, anything's possible. But wouldn't there be some sort of, y'know, like, discernible pattern of shaken-off sedimentary debris?

Queerer and queerer, when you actually start to think about it for more than a second or two...

Steviepinhead

Well, I'm unsure at whose comment the moderator's comment was directed, but I'm trying to give the "racing continents," er, hypothesis the same respect which any "scientific" hypothesis deserves: to be taken out and test-driven, to see if the follow-on consequences make any sense and conform to observation.

Amaleq13

Stevie,

I consider there to be a significant difference between ridiculing ideas and ridiculing the individual who puts forth those ideas. The former is not prohibited while the latter arguably is. Even the former isn't really necessary for a rational discussion. Fun as hell but not really necessary.



PS Is your brother named "Zippy"?