FireBrandon

I am not a Jew, but I have found that some of the best arguments against the divinity and Messiahship of Jesus of Nazareth are found in modern Jewish writings. I would like to start a thread that examines their arguments in detail. I shall begin with the argument that Jesus did not fulfill the chief factor of messianic prophecy in making world peace, abolishing idolatry, and giving light to all the Gentile pagan worshipers.

Argument 1: The Messianic prophecies predict that immediately following the Messiah's appearance there will be a world of peace and love (cf. Is. 11) and the end of evil, idolatry, and falsehood. Such things were not accomplished at the coming of Jesus. The Christian excuse that these things remain to be accomplished at Jesus' Second Coming (Parousia) is unwarranted in the prophecies themselves. If God wanted the Jews to accept Jesus and he knew it would take some time between the first appearance of the Messiah and the fulfillment of those prophecies, he could have made that abundantly clear. The Christian excuse is completely ad hoc and a mere way to defend the preconceived conclusion that Jesus must have been the Christ (Christ means "Anointed One")

Side Note: Christians (mostly Gentiles) throughout history have hated Jews because of their thoughtful conclusion that Jesus was not the Messiah. Luther initially tried to convert Jews but when he failed horridly he began to call them vile names and oppose them bitterly. His writings and life work inspired Hitler to his action in the Holocaust where innocent women and children were tortured, enslaved, murdered etc.... The bitter beast of religion kills those who oppose its dogma. Lest some think only Luther culpable, it is a thing which spans the whole of church history.

For great reading on Jewish arguments against Christianity visit
www.Jewsforjudaism.org
www.drazin.com

Fire Brandon

No Robots

There are many Jews who have argued that Judaism must reclaim Christ as its own. See, for example, the work of Constantin Brunner. More recently, Shmuley Boteach wrote:

Jesus is the most famous Jew of all time, but is ironically remembered today as a Christian. Surprisingly, the Jewish community has accepted this act of forced conversion, and have abandoned Jesus as an apostate who was a traitor to his people. How odd that the Jews would accept a Christian version of one of their brethren rather than seeking to discover the man entombed beneath the myth.

apatura_iris

Jesus is generally viewed as a false messiah in the vein of Sabbatai Zvi, in that he attempted to force the Messianic Age before it was the right time-- Jewish folklore has a number of stories of other rabbis/ mystics trying to do the same (like Joseph de la Reina), with disastrous consequences to themselves and the Jewish people. It's halachically forbidden to try to force the Messianic age, which is one reason many religious Jews would not recognize the state of Israel for a long time (and the Neturai Karta still do not). "Forcing" the return of Jews to Israel was seen as yet another attempt to hasten the messianic age.

I think Jesus was well aware that the time was not right, but for whatever reason he barged ahead and tried. As for his reasons, I'm not sure.

If you recall the passage where he curses the fig tree for not being ripe and causes it to die (Mt 21:19), this is a clear allusion to the messianic age not being "ripe" yet; a fig tree is a long-standing metaphor both for Torah and the Jewish people, in Jewish tradition and talmudics.

No Robots

It was his followers who continually tried to cast him in the role of Messiah, despite his best efforts to teach them that his salvific work was purely spiritual.

aa5874

This quote is actually mis-leading fundamentally. No Jew of antiquity has called or referred to any Jesus of Nazareth as famous. The two prominent Jewish writers of the 1st century, Philo and Josephus, in their extant writings make no mention whatsoever of a celebrated Jesus who was believed to be the son of the god of the Jews.

The Jews have constantly, and since "Dialogue with Trypho", written around 150 CE, denied that the character described by Justin Martyr, Jesus Christ, ever came to earth.

There is no extant credible non-apologetic information that in the 1st century the Jews claimed Jesus Christ was on earth and was their own.

apatura_iris

What about the Talmud? There are a number of talmudic mentions of Jesus, both direct and indirect. Though he is depicted as "infamous," not exactly famous.

Jesus makes frequent allusions to the fact that he considers himself to be the messiah. Even in one of his earliest synagogue appearances he reads a messianic haftorah passage and tells the crowd that the prophecy has been fulfilled-- "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Lk. 4) The crowd is thrilled until he compares himself to Elisha and Elijah, and how they helped gentiles during times of Jewish distress. Then they try to throw him off a cliff.

eheffa

My understanding is that the Talmud references date back no earlier than the 3rd century or so & do not represent a contemporary first century Judaic response to Jesus of Nazareth.

-evan
:huh:

Toto

Some posts have been split off here. Please keep to the subject and put down those hobby horses.

No Robots

There is a difference between comparing himself to a prophet and in calling himself the Messiah.

No Robots

Well, you have your work cut out if you hope to re-educate the man whom Newsweek called “the most famous rabbi in America.”