mountainman

from Abrahamic religion

The term, desert monotheism, is sometimes used for a similar purpose of comparison [to the term in question, "Abrahamic religion") in historical contexts, but not for modern faiths, and the term today is considered to be derogatory.

It should be noted however, that Amenhotep IV or Akhenaten, born in 1353 BCE, is the earliest verifiable historical advocate or prophet of monotheism, although many argue[citation needed] that his religion came from Judaism (early Judaism) and the religions may be one and the same.

lpetrich

That seems so farfetched that I don't know what to say.

Jewish monotheism gradually emerged, perhaps starting in Judah during the Divided Monarchy period (922 - 722 BCE), and getting stronger and becoming dominant during the Babylonian Exile (586 - 520 BCE) and afterwards.

Akhnaton lived nearly half a millennium before that, and his belief differed from the early Jewish version in several ways:

Akhnaton: The Sun is the single god
Jewish: God is invisible, and is certainly not the Sun

Akhnaton: lots of pictures of the Sun God
Jewish: that's idolatry: a no-no

Akhnaton: never heard of Israel
Jewish: We are God's chosen people

mountainman

Worshop of the sun as the single god - monotheistic.

But still monotheistic.

An issue entirely irrelevant to Akhnaton's monotheism.


Marcellinus describes the obelisk now located in the
Piazza di San Giovanni in Laterano, Rome, Italy, that
was pulled over at the Karnak temple complex by
Constantine.

Its origination is traced to the Pharaoh Tuthmosis III (The 18th
Dynasty, reigned B.C. 1504-1450) - Tuthmosis IV (reigned B.C. 1392-1382).
In height it is 32.18 meters or 105.6 feet, but was formerly 36 meters,
being reduced by a cut when moving from Circus Maximus circa. 1587 CE.
The pedestal adds another 6 meters, totalling 42 meters including the
pedestal. (Other sources say 45.7 meters, 47 meters). Its weight has
been estimated between 230 and 455 tons, and was made of Red granite.

Inscriptions cut into it are described in this manner ...

17. Now the text
of the characters cut upon the ancient obelisk which
we see in the Circus I add below in the Greek
translation, following the work of Hermapion. The
translation of the first line, beginning on the South
side, reads as follows:

FIRST LINE

18. The Sun speaks to King Ramestes.
I have granted to thee that thou
shouldst with joy rule over the whole earth,
thou whom the Sun loveth - and powerful Apollo, lover
of truth, son of Heron, god-born, creator of the
world, whom the Sun hath chosen, the doughty
son of Mars, King Ramestes. Unto him the whole
earth is made subject through his valour and boldness.
King Ramastes, eternal child of the Sun."

SECOND LINE

19. "Mighty Apollo, seated upon truth, Lord of
the Diadem, who hath gloroiusly honoured Egypt
as his peculiar possession, who hath beautiful Heliopolis,
created the rest of the world, and adorned
with manifold honours the Gods erected in Heliopolis -
he whom the Sun loveth."

THIRD LINE

20. "Mighty Apollo, child of the sun, all-radiant,
whom the Sun hath chosen and valiant Mars endowed;
whose blessings shall endure forever; whom
Ammon loveth, as having filled his temple with the
good fruits of the date palm; unto whom the Gods
have given length of life.
"Apollo, mighty son of Heron, Ramestes, king
of the world, who hath preserved Egypt by conquering
other nations; whom the Sun loveth; to who the Gods
have granted length of life; Lord of the world,
Ramestes ever-living."

WEST SIDE, SECOND LINE

21. "The Sun, great God, Lord of Heaven;
I have granted to thee life hitherto unforseen.
Apollo the mighty, Lord incomparable of the Diadem,
who hath set up statues of the Gods in this kingdom,
ruler of Egypt, and he ardorned Heliopolis just as
he did the Sun himself, Ruler of Heaven; he finished
a good work, child of the Sun, the king ever-living."

THIRD LINE

22. "The God Sun, Lord of Heaven, to Ramastes
the king. I have granted to thee the rule and the
authority over all men; whom Apollo, lover of truth,
Lord of seasons, and Vulcan, father of the Gods,
hath chosen for Mars. King all-gladdening, child of
the Sun and beloved of the Sun."

EAST SIDE, FIRST LINE

23. "The great God of Heliopolis, heavenly,
mighty Apollo, son of Heron, whom the Sun hath
loved, whom the Gods hath honoured, the ruler over
all the earth, whom the SUn hath chosen, a king
valiant for Mars, whom Ammon loveth, and he that
is all-radiant, having set apart the king eternal";
and so on.

All this appears reasonably mono theistic, centered
upon the "unconquerable sun", "Sol Invictus", a tradition
which is recognised in the fourth century by most of
the people in the Roman empire, adequately summarised
by Julian in his "Oration to the Sovereign Sun".

The claims that the Judaic tradition is older than the Egyptian
were first made, erroneously, by "the wretched Eusebius", for
a specific purpose associated with the fabrication of the Galilaeans
(ie: the new testament). Also the related claim, that the idea
of monotheism emerged with the younger Judaic tradition, cannot
be entertained.



Pete Brown

jeffevnz

Meh... It's possible that the Jews got monotheism from Akhenaten, but I don't see any reason to suppose that they did. If you already believe in multiple gods, then choosing to worship just one of them seems like a pretty small step to me. In polytheistic cultures, it was typical for people to join the cult of one particular deity, while still believing in the others. Maybe the followers of Yahweh just got self-righteous and decided they needed to eliminate the other cults. Seems more likely, given the evidence.

lpetrich

Yahweh may originally have been a tribal or national god, a protector of the nation, so there would have been some politics involved -- don't worship the gods who protect other nations, only the one who protects ours. And eventually they thought of "reasons", like how those gods are very bad, how worshipping them is worshipping statues, etc.

And this only supports independence from Akhnaton's worship of Aton.

It must be said that some people find it difficult to imagine that anyone could ever invent anything; they seem to think that inventions are only made once. This leads to the more extreme forms of cultural diffusionism, which have now been discredited. Forms like supposing the Central American pyramids to be inspired by the Egyptian ones, which is totally laughable. When Central Americans started building their pyramids, pyramid-building had gone out of style in Egypt about 3 millennia ago, and the two types of pyramids have different construction and purposes. The Egyptian ones were giant mausoleums, while the Central American ones were temple foundations.

robto

I agree with lpetrich. Everyone wants to derive Jewish monotheism from somewhere else, but...

- Problem with Egyptian derivation: Jews may never have been in Egypt

-Problem with Zoroastrian derivation: Zoroastrians may not have been monotheist yet during the Exile.

Why couldn't Jews have been the first monotheists? Or at least come up with it on their own?

rob117

What's interesting is that some of the gods that protected other nations (Baal-Hadad in particular, patron of the Aramaeans) also had a function within the native Israelite pantheon, and so this would lead to the antipathy between traditional religion and the "Yahweh-alone" movement that is the core theme of the prophetic and Deuteronomistic rants. I'm sure most ordinary Israelites weren't paricularly bothered when the Tyrian cult of Baal-Melqart (distinct from Hadad) was purged by Jehu; he was a foeign god anyway. Hadad was native, and the use of the title "Baal" for both gods seems to have become a rhetorical device among the 8th-7th century Yahweh-aloneists- "See, Elijah, one of our national heroes, eliminated 'Baal' from Israel! Why are you still worshipping him?"

John Kesler

I think that Israelite monotheism developed out of necessity when the Israelites had to reconcile the Babylonian captivity with the belief that defeat of a people meant defeat of its god (Exodus 12:12). Moving from henotheism to monotheism allowed for continued belief in and worship of Yahweh, even when on foreign soil.

mountainman

The same argument applies to the Egyptian form of monotheism,
embraced in the recognition of the single sun at the center of all
webs of life (as has been vindicated by modern environmental
science) which is archeologically documented on the obelisk of Karnak,
referred to above, circa 1500 BCE. ie: It was not new then in Egypt,
and probably naturally evolved millenia beforehand.

Simply that the archeological antiquity of Egypt is more extensive
than the antiquity of the tribes of the Jews.



Pete Brown

lpetrich

How is that supposed to be the case, mountainman?

Furthermore, the Sun was only one of several gods worshipped by ancient Egyptians.

Akhnaton's monotheism never caught on, and after his death, his successors attempted to erase his memory, and even his name.

I don't see how that is supposed to be relevant.