Freethought & Rationalism Archive

God's Will Hunting · 08-27-2004, 09:00 PM

Deuteronomy

Quote:

13:6
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7
Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

13:8
Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9
But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

So the infinitely wise and powerful creator of the heavens and the earth, the countless billions of trillions of stars, galaxies, planets, time, matter, and space itself, wants you to kill your mother, brother, children, friends and pet goldfish if they dare speak of another god?

I would be interested to hear what proponents of these commands think about this. Have you killed any of your friends or relatives lately? Oh wait, isn't there something about "thou shalt not kill" written somewhere else? Something about some commandments...

I'm no Mr Spock, but this seems a bit illogical captain.

inquisitive01 · 08-27-2004, 10:17 PM

Quote:

"The law in this chapter has been represented as stern and sanguinary, but it was in accordance with the national constitution of Israel. God being their King, idolatry was treason, and a city turned to idols put itself into a state, and incurred the punishment, of rebellion."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...7953-2922.html

God's Will Hunting · 08-27-2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

The law in this chapter has been represented as stern and sanguinary

I'll say. That's like saying the Titanic had 'a little leak'

Quote:

but it was in accordance with the national constitution of Israel.

I don't recall hearing about Israelites murdering friends and family over this one.

inquisitive01 · 08-28-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God's Will Hunting

I'll say. That's like saying the Titanic had 'a little leak'

I don't recall hearing about Israelites murdering friends and family over this one.

Laws and punishments (especially the potential for capital punishment) for breaking laws were more severe back then. Even today, if your brother, mother, cousin, uncle, etc., (close relations) are convicted of murder, that does not exempt them (because of their close relation to you) from being subject to severe punishments such as life in prison without parole or even capital punishment in certain areas.

Naruto · 08-28-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Laws and punishments (especially the potential for capital punishment) for breaking laws were more severe back then. Even today, if your brother, mother, cousin, uncle, etc., (close relations) are convicted of murder, that does not exempt them (because of their close relation to you) from being subject to severe punishments such as life in prison without parole or even capital punishment in certain areas.

But this is god's law we're talking about, and god is supposedly unchanging.

inquisitive01 · 08-28-2004, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto

But this is god's law we're talking about, and god is supposedly unchanging.

Did you read the link in post #2 above?

Naruto · 08-28-2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Did you read the link in post #2 above?

Yes, I did. It says that god was their king. If god was their king, then he could have changed the law easily. Not doing so shows he approved of it.

inquisitive01 · 08-28-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto

Yes, I did. It says that God was their king. If God was their king, then he could have changed the law easily. Not doing so shows he approved of it.

Okay. So, based on your knowledge of God, do you think He would approve of me telling a lie to you right now (if I did actually do that on purpose, that is)? In the Ten Commandments, it says "Thou shalt not lie," which shows me that God does not approve of telling lies. However, if a man chooses (keyword) to tell a lie without any input from anyone (including God) but himself, does that also mean God approved of it (based on your little analogy above)?

Btw, not the literal "king" sitting on a throne watching belly dancers, being married to the queen, or what have you, but the King of what they based their laws on. In other words, the people made these laws AND chose the punishments for breaking these laws, so it would have to be them who changed the laws also. To them idolatry was equal to treason, and apparently treason involved capital punishment.

Of course, I would think that you knew that already, but had to say something regardless in order to throw things out of proportion (happens a lot here, so I'm used to it). :thumbs:

Angrillori · 08-28-2004, 10:13 PM

So...let's play your game:

We'll pretend that we only know god's morals by what he tells us he doesn't want us to do.(Thou shalt not lie, I believe was your example) We'll even pretend he doesn't want us to do the things he explicitly gives us license to do.

How do you handle: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

(Thou shalt not lie?) Sounds like you ought to be out roasting some wiccans right now Inq. right? Using your logic, we KNOW god doesn't approve of you suffering witches to live right now....just like he wouldn't aprove if you lied right now....

Or is that one of those "man-made" and not inspired bits of the bible? I REALLY wish you'd publish that list sometime.

quip · 08-28-2004, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitive01

Did you read the link in post #2 above?

Quote:

a prophet--that is, some notable person laying claim to the character and authority of the prophetic office ....., performing feats of dexterity or power in support of his pretensions, or even predicting events which occurred as he foretold; as, for instance, an eclipse which a knowledge of natural science might enable him to anticipate.......Should the aim of such a one be to seduce the people from the worship of the true God, he is an impostor and must be put to death.

So by this logic, Jesus being pinwheeled to the cross was entirely justified, or is this law only pertinent to non-Christian prophets?

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08-28-2004, 10:13 PM	#9
Angrillori Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: A world less bright without WinAce. Posts: 7,482	So...let's play your game: We'll pretend that we only know god's morals by what he tells us he doesn't want us to do.(Thou shalt not lie, I believe was your example) We'll even pretend he doesn't want us to do the things he explicitly gives us license to do. How do you handle: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (Thou shalt not lie?) Sounds like you ought to be out roasting some wiccans right now Inq. right? Using your logic, we KNOW god doesn't approve of you suffering witches to live right now....just like he wouldn't aprove if you lied right now.... Or is that one of those "man-made" and not inspired bits of the bible? I REALLY wish you'd publish that list sometime.

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