Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 06-29-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

A Unique Archaeological Find was Exposed Following the Robbery of an Ancient Burial Cave:

A 2,000 Year Old Ossuary Belonging to a Daughter of the Caiaphas Family of High Priests was Discovered

This week researchers from Bar Ilan University and Tel Aviv University published results of a study that was done for the Israel Antiquities Authority,which summarizes the importance of the find and confirms its authenticity

The ancient ossuary bears an Aramaic inscription from the time of the Second Temple: "Miriam Daughter of Yeshua Son of Caiaphas, Priests [of] Ma'aziah from Beth 'Imri‟.

The ossuary was looted from a cave, so information has been lost.

Blog comments: XKV8R, Jim West.

Unfortunately, this find will not solve any current controversies. Caiaphas is known from Josephus.

This ossuary was not found in the Caiaphas family tomb, which has been in the news lately as part of the Jesus Nails controversy.

Jack Kilmon commented on Jim West's blog (Qayaffa is a different transliteration of Caiaphas)

Quote:

Qayaffa was a priest of the course of Beyt Imri and his SON, Yahosef Bar Qayaffa is the one called “Caiaphas” in the NT. This Miryam was the daughter of Yeshua Bar Qayaffa (apparently Yahosef’s brother), also a priest of the Ma’aziah family in the course of Beyt Imri. The NT Caiaphas was her uncle, not her grandfather.

We know nothing of Qayaffa other than he was the father of Yahosef, who was High Priest, and THIS Qayaffa, his brother Yeshua.
...

Ma’aziah was the 24th Priestly Course. I don’t think Yahosef could be High Priest AND a member of that course but his brother Yeshua apparently was.

Toto · 06-29-2011, 06:35 PM

more on the priestly order

Quote:

[Profs. Zissu and Goren] explain that Ma’azya (or Ma’azyahu) is the name of the last of 24 Priestly orders that served the Temple in Jerusalem. The names of the orders are listed in Chronicles 1 (24,18) and Ma’azya is mentioned in the Book of Nechemya (10,9). The ossuary teaches us that the Caiapha family belonged to the Order of Ma’azya.

The scholars offer two possible explanations for “Beit Imri,” which means literally “the House of Imri.” One possibility is that this is a Priestly family’s name – the Imer family which is mentioned in Ezra (2:36,37) and Nechemya (7:39-42) – and that the Ma’azya Order were their descendants.

The second option is that Beit Imri is a place name. In that case it is most likely the Judean village which now is populated by Arabs and known as Beit Umar. Second Temple Jewish remains have been found in that village and at Hirbet Kufin, nearby.

All of the news stories report the role of Caiaphas in the gospels as if it were factual history.

Caiaphas is not just attested in the NT. He is also mentioned in Josephus. I cannot find anything definite to suggest he was mentioned in Talmud or midrash. These articles only state that it was "this" Caiaphas who is mentioned in the NT.

I am not at all convinced that any particular ossuary that mentions Caiaphas (however spelled) must relate to that Caiaphas. There may have been numbers of folks so named. Even if a relative is said to be a "high" priest, the term is used loosely for any chief priest.

Bart Ehrman has even suggested that Greek Kēfas (Cephas) is a diminutive form of Kaiafas (Caiaphas). By the above reasoning, even Cephas from the NT must be Caiaphas of the NT & Josephus. Enough already!

DCH

stephan huller · 06-30-2011, 09:05 AM

From what I remember in Jastrow (Aramaic dictionary) there are references to Caiaphas in the rabbinic literature. The letter Qof itself is connected with the high priest. For some reason in the back of my head the reference connects Caiaphas with the letter Qof and the number 100. Just a guess though. All the information just gets fuzzy after a while

dog-on · 06-30-2011, 11:14 AM

Well, he did have a wonderful baritone...

Minimalist · 06-30-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

This ossuary was not found in the Caiaphas family tomb

Which is not to say that there was not another tomb for this branch of the family. Yeshua bar Qayaffa ( assuming he was the brother of Yehosef) would have also been a member of the aristocracy. You cannot simply assume that everyone who bore the name would have been dropped in the same pit.

Who knows...they may have hated each other!

bacht · 06-30-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Well, he did have a wonderful baritone...

"This Jesus must, Jesus must, Jesus must die..."

Love that record - I've been listening to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, I think Gabriel was channelling Superstar on that album

vid · 07-01-2011, 12:39 PM

I am unclear on this "Caiaphas" (gospels) vs. "Joseph Caiaphas" (english translation of Josephus) vs. "Joseph son of Caiaphas" (1990 ossuary, modern articles). Is this just some translation issue, or... ?

Toto · 07-01-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

I am unclear on this "Caiaphas" (gospels) vs. "Joseph Caiaphas" (english translation of Josephus) vs. "Joseph son of Caiaphas" (1990 ossuary, modern articles). Is this just some translation issue, or... ?

What is unclear?

Mark does not name the Jewish high priest. The other gospel writers name him Caiaphas, possibly from reading in Josephus that Caiaphas was the high priest at the time. Caiaphas seems to be a family name.

stephan huller · 07-01-2011, 12:52 PM

Yes Caiaphas seems to have been a family name. It makes perfect sense.

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06-30-2011, 09:05 AM	#4
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	From what I remember in Jastrow (Aramaic dictionary) there are references to Caiaphas in the rabbinic literature. The letter Qof itself is connected with the high priest. For some reason in the back of my head the reference connects Caiaphas with the letter Qof and the number 100. Just a guess though. All the information just gets fuzzy after a while

06-30-2011, 11:14 AM	#5
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	Well, he did have a wonderful baritone...

07-01-2011, 12:39 PM	#8
vid Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Myjava, Slovakia Posts: 384	I am unclear on this "Caiaphas" (gospels) vs. "Joseph Caiaphas" (english translation of Josephus) vs. "Joseph son of Caiaphas" (1990 ossuary, modern articles). Is this just some translation issue, or... ?

07-01-2011, 12:52 PM	#10
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Yes Caiaphas seems to have been a family name. It makes perfect sense.

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