Clouseau

I don't believe I have been so tedious as to mention myself. It possibly does not appear to be so in the sad, benighted USA, but the great majority of people who make claim to Christian belief are evolutionists; certainly among the educated among them.

Vicious Love

Did I imply you were a creationist? I was simply stating that your particular brand of sexist, hatemongering, holier-than-thou Christianity can be remarkably unpopular with some people. This casts some doubt on your suggestion that, were it not for YECs stealing your thunder, everyone would see the light of your benighted beliefs.

Clouseau

Benighted, eh? Funny, I just used that word.

Vicious Love

Hm. Could've been subconscious plagiarism, could've just been my perennial habit of using "benighted", in proximity to "enlightened", "see the light", "illuminated", and so forth, could've been a mix of the two.

Clouseau

The fancy is all on the part of fundie atheists and co-travellers, the likes of Dawkins included, who would have been blinkingly consigned to the idiot bin by the atheists of the early and mid 20th century. It has been believed by contemporaries of Darwin onwards (including Darwin himself, his Presbyterian botanist friend Asa Gray, and the fervent Anglican Wallace) that evolution etc. has no necessary conflict or even point of contact with Genesis. Even Maimonides, long before The Beagle sailed, maintained that an allegorical sense in early Genesis was to be accepted. The same applies to the flood story, and the tower of Babel, as far as scholarship is concerned. Real chronology starts with Abram.

notapadawan

I think it is the latter. THough I could be wrong, I just don't see how the exact date of the world accomplishes anything. The Bible mentions the creation, but between the initial creation and the recording of the fall of man no timeline is hinted at. It could have been several years, or even several thousand years.

Clouseau

I think you're right, though I don't agree that there is anything of literal meaning here. All of these stories (chaps 1-11) are purely allegorical, copies of existing myths, though with a crucial difference. The word 'Adam' means 'man'; the story of Adam is the story of adam, that is, you and me, who lose our innocence as children. The six days of creation are a borrowing of the seven day cycle from, probably, Mesopotamian culture, the important thing being the rest at the end of the six days, the six being the saving work of Christ. The flood is likewise prophetic of Christ, when read in Hebrew, the flood being the destruction of the wicked at any time, the Ark being a figure of Christ.

Harry Bosch

You are skeptical of the big bang? I haven't heard that one in awhile. Is it your view that all the observational data that we have that supports the theory is made up?

Secondly, most old earth creationists were once traditional YECs. Most that I have talked to changed their mind to old earth due to the overwhealing evidence demonstrating an old earth and old universe. The big bang theory clearly demonstrates an old universe. How can a person believe in an old earth but young universe? That doesn’t make sense???!!

Roger Pearse

I never heard such a dogma, and I'm as fundamentalist as it gets.

Not sure this is a thread for BC&H, tho.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Toto

OK, the consensus seems to be that this is E material.

Have a nice flight.