Originally Posted by Pilate Can anyone post in Latin the following text? ST. IRENAEUS OF LYONS Adversus Haereses Book I, Chapter 8, pargarph 5 How the Valentinians pervert the Scriptures to support their own pious opinions "“Further, they {the Valentinians} teach … in these words: John, the disciple of the Lord, wishing to set forth the origin of all things, so as to explain how the Father produced the whole, lays down a certain principle -- that, namely, which was first-begotten by God, which Being he has termed both the only-begotten Son and God, in whom the Father, after a seminal manner, brought forth all things. By him {God} the Word was produced {i.e. God produced the Word}… for the Word was the author of form and beginning to all the Aeons that came into existence after Him. "

Adhuc autem Johannem discipulum Domini docent primam ogdoadem, et omnium generationem significasse ipsis dictionibus. Itaque principium quoddam subjecit, quod primum factum est a Deo: quod etiam Nun vocat et filium: et unigenitum Domini vocat, in quo omnia Pater præmisit
seminaliter. Ab hoc autem aiunt Verbum emissum, et in eo omnem Æonum substantiam, quam ipsum postea formavit Verbum. Quoniam igitur de prima genesi dicit, bene a principio, hoc est a Filio, et Verbo doctrinam facit. Dicit autem sic: In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum: hoc erat in principio apud Deum. Prius distinguens in tria, Deum, et Principium, et Verbum, iterum ea univit, uti et emissionem ipsorum utrorumque ostendat, id est, Filii et Verbi. et eam quae est ad invicem simul et ad Patrem unionem. In Patre enim et ex Patre principium, in principio autem et ex principio Verbum. Bene igitur dixit, In principio erat Verbum; erat enim in Filio: Et Verbum erat apud Deum: etenim principium. Et Deus erat Verbum, consequenter; quod enim ex Deo natum est, Deus est. Hic enim erat in principio apud Deum, ostendit emissionis ordinem. Omnia per ipsum facta sunt, et sine ipso factum est nihil. Omnibus enim iis qui post eum sunt Æonibus, formationis et generationis causa Verbum factum est.

Originally Posted by Attonitus Adhuc autem Johannem discipulum Domini docent primam ogdoadem, et omnium generationem significasse ipsis dictionibus. Itaque principium quoddam subjecit, quod primum factum est a Deo: quod etiam Nun vocat et filium: et unigenitum Domini vocat, in quo omnia Pater præmisit seminaliter. Ab hoc autem aiunt Verbum emissum, et in eo omnem Æonum substantiam, quam ipsum postea formavit Verbum. Quoniam igitur de prima genesi dicit, bene a principio, hoc est a Filio, et Verbo doctrinam facit. Dicit autem sic: In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum: hoc erat in principio apud Deum. Prius distinguens in tria, Deum, et Principium, et Verbum, iterum ea univit, uti et emissionem ipsorum utrorumque ostendat, id est, Filii et Verbi. et eam quae est ad invicem simul et ad Patrem unionem. In Patre enim et ex Patre principium, in principio autem et ex principio Verbum. Bene igitur dixit, In principio erat Verbum; erat enim in Filio: Et Verbum erat apud Deum: etenim principium. Et Deus erat Verbum, consequenter; quod enim ex Deo natum est, Deus est. Hic enim erat in principio apud Deum, ostendit emissionis ordinem. Omnia per ipsum facta sunt, et sine ipso factum est nihil. Omnibus enim iis qui post eum sunt Æonibus, formationis et generationis causa Verbum factum est.

Originally Posted by Pilate Thank you Attonitus. Can you or anyone else translate these phrases? "Et Deus erat Verbum, consequenter; quod enim ex Deo natum est, Deus est." "In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum:" And explain your translation? Who capitalized the letter D in "Deus est"? Irenaeus or the publisher? How does one distinguish in Latin the name "God" from the noun 'god"? I will appreciate the help.

Originally Posted by Pilate Thank you Attonitus. Can you or anyone else translate these phrases? "Et Deus erat Verbum, consequenter; quod enim ex Deo natum est, Deus est."

Originally Posted by Pilate "In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum:"

Originally Posted by Pilate And explain your translation?

Originally Posted by Pilate Who capitalized the letter D in "Deus est"? Irenaeus or the publisher?

Originally Posted by Pilate How does one distinguish in Latin the name "God" from the noun 'god"?

Originally Posted by Pilate I will appreciate the help.

Originally Posted by Julian Well, my latin is a bit shaky but here is how I see it: Et Deus erat Verbum, consequenter; quod enim ex Deo natum est, Deus est. And God was the word, consequently; what certainly is born from God, God is. In principio erat Verbum, et Verbum erat apud Deum, et Deus erat Verbum This is simply John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word. Although it does seem that the word order leaves something to be desired from the greek which clearly reads the Word was God ( και θεος ην ο λογος ) for the final bit. Any reason why we don't see a clear indicator of the subject? Or do we, and I am just being dense? Perhaps someone more skilled than I should do this. Julian

Originally Posted by S.C.Carlson " The editor. Lower case wasn't invented when Irenaeus wrote. Stephen

Originally Posted by Pilate How would one make the distinction between "God" and "a god" in Latin?

Originally Posted by Pilate Can the Latin text of John 1:1 be translated in English different from the Greek text based on any peculiarities of the Latin language?

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer You can't. Latin lacks all articles, unlike English or Greek. Only context could tell. Once again, Latin's lack of articles and Greek's subtle uses of them. We had a discussion on John 1.1 not too long ago...I think you were in it.