militant agnostic

I know this may seem like an enormously large request, but...

I need to become educated to a level of knowledge about the Bible, its history, and the reasons why people like most of the regular posters on this forum reject it as being historically true that the people on this site have.

Most importantly I want to know the arguments that apologists use and why there wrong.

I am not asking for you to post a thousand page essay on these subjects. What I am really looking for is a good laundry list of books, online articles, and forum posts that you have read or written that can help me know and understand the basic things that I am not knowledgeable about like the figures in the Bible, the history of its books, and the places they took place in.

Keep in mind that I am not completely ignorant of these matters. I have been a regular reader on this forum for nearly three years. I am in the somewhat odd position of having spent a great deal of time listing in on the debates and discussions of higher criticism and historical investigation of the Bible and even being able to have begun understanding much of it. Yet, at the same time I have not even had the benefit of having gone to Sunday school.

I appreciate all the intellectual growth I have gone through in these past few years by reading your posts and the writings of the authors you have brought to my attention. I have a far more complete grasp of how the world works and how people think thanks to all the controversies and debates I have read here.

Thank you.

NatSciNarg

A good start might be to read through the sticky thread, 'Some basic questions' at the top of this forum.
Best wishes,
Matthew

robto

My recommendation would be John Dominic Crossan's The Birth of Christianity. Crossan is better than most at explaining his assumptions and addressing why we can't just take the Gospels as history. This isn't easy reading, but it's well worth the investment of time and effort.

Tsuyoiko

The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine is an absolute must-read.

Tigers!

Many on this forum would recommend that the source documents should be read. I agree - make sure you read the Bible too. Don't just take anymore's word on what it said (or rather what they claim it says).:wave:

Malachi151

I, for one, am going to be leading a Bible study starting in January, and I'm thinking about putting up our info on-line as well so that it can be both an in person Bible study and an on-line one.

You can e-mail/pm me if you are interested in me keeping you informed on this. I'll probably also post something about it here when it gets closer to time.

For starters, though, just start reading a Bible. You can do this on-line for free. I use Biblegateway because its nice and easy, but they use NIV which is considered a poor translation by scholars, but its good enough IMO, and its also the most popular translation in America so there is value there.

I also recommend:

The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings (or via: amazon.co.uk)

If you want to buy a Bible, I recommend a Study Bible, probably either the Oxford study Bible or the Harpers Study Bible, both are under $30.

Also, of course, I recommend my own presentation on this subject

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...ristianity.htm

hatsoff

The first book I read on the subject was probably Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History of the Church. This was back when I was still Christian, and my Pastor had lent to me a paperback copy. It's a surprisingly fluid book, to tell you the truth. I highly recommend it (or at least the first half of it) to anyone interested in the early history of Christianity. The entire book is floating around somewhere on the net.

other online resources:
Earlychristianwritings.com (the quintessential reference site for the New Testament works)
Religion-online.com (a few complete introductory texts freely available)
Bible.org (some Christian-flavored articles by seasoned professionals)
Ntcanon.org (nice reference resource)

Dean Anderson

That includes, of course, and not taking the word of Christians about what they claim it says and how they claim it should be interpreted either...

douglas

I agree with everything else that's already been said. I'm in the same position as you are, and would recommend that you narrow your scope a bit. Start with something that interests you (ie. New Testament Gospels, Abraham, Moses, The crucifixion of jesus, etc.) and focus on that. Read the bible regarding that topic, then read stuff that has been written about that topic. The bible is just to daggone big and confusing unless I bit it off one morsel at a time.

As an armchair bible explorer, here are some entry level books that I've appreciated:

Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" (or via: amazon.co.uk)
Randall Helm's "Gospel Fictions" (or via: amazon.co.uk)
Margaret Nutting Ralph's "And God said What?" (or via: amazon.co.uk)

The last one is written by a Catholic theist who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of the bible, so it has an interesting slant.

And I would agree with you about the value of this forum. I learn something new every time I visit.

militant agnostic

I really appreciate eveyone's help. I think I will start by looking at the site you made Malachi151. I will go for the The Birth of Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk) book by Crossan as well.

I will try to get to as much of the stuff I have read here as I can.