dmarker

I have been discussing this verse with various Christians.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Now they are saying that "hate" actually means "love less". However when I checked out Strong's concordance as recommended by Christians, I found that the original Greek used the word "miseo" which is defined as "hate". I also checked other verses and "miseo" pops up again and again referring to hate.

I refer to:

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Jhn 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

Jhn 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

All these verses have "miseo" for the English word hate. Try substituting "love less" for hate in these verses. And why does "miseo" only mean "love less" in Luke 14:26?

I got the concordances from this site:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html

If anyone wants to check my findings, go ahead.

Jayne

I've never heard that "love less" was the accurate translation. Rather that it's the accurate interpretation given the context of the scripture.

Christians can't accept that it literally means one has to hate ones family to follow Christ. That clearly contradicts other statements made by Jesus. If it can't be literal, then what we have to look at is it's context to see what is meant. Jesus is saying is that if one "hates not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also" then he has an inability to follow Jesus, in the same way someone who has $10 can't build a home with that $10. The next question is why not?

A similiar verse that comes to mind is Matthew 6:24

No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon

Here Jesus highlights that when he says "you can not love x and me" he's essentially referring to who the boss is. What you have on top of your priority list can not be any thing but God and nothing can be equal to God. If we try we fail because the two are completely incompatible. Eventually we will have to choose and be devoted to one and despise the other.

We can love our families, but we can not put them above or equal to our God. If we try, we will fail.

As for why it still means "hate" in the other quoted scripture my simple answer is that it doesn't contradict other scriptures in a way that requires a different meaning to be applies, nor does the context of the other scriptures suggest a different meaning.

spin

Misew means "hate". It's that simple. Your companions are clueless on the matter. Here is misew according to Liddell and Scott -- look below the tables. This is the reference dictionary for ancient Greek, so if they are willing to disagree with it, you should give up with them.


spin

judge

boy that jesus guy sure was tough.
If you want to follow him you have to cut off your hands pluck out your eyes and hate your family.

dmarker

Ah, yes, the interpretation according to context. At least you laid it out for me. Except which other statements are contradictory?

Now you might bring up "Love thy neighbor as thyself" However notice that it doesn't contradict at all because Jesus doesn't just say love thy neighbor but to love thy neighbor as thyself; and in Luke 14:26 we are commanded to hate our own lives.

Now we do have "love thy enemy" (Matt 5:44) with no qualifications, but now we have this verse: Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Are these verses saying that we should love those who hate and despise us and hate those who love us?

What would make you fail if you loved your family equally to Christ? Wouldn't god want us to love our families equal to himself? This isn't "you cannot love x and me"; this is "you cannot love your family and me".

And don't forget Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

LP675

It’s obviously some sort of special rhetorical use of the word.

For is it not written that Jesus elsewhere says to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength…Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these"?

Steven Carr

Second-guessing what an omniscient being, whose wisdom far exceeds that of ours, seems a mug's game to me. How can we ever know that our finite brains can interpret correctly the words of a being who is infinitely more wise than any of us.

Jesus was perfectly capable of saying 'love less' instead of 'hate' if he had wanted to. I'm sure there was a good reason why he chose not to do so.

But Christians will only accept intepretations that fit in with their own preconceived ideas. If it is difficult to accept then they will not accept it.

It seems that God came down to Earth and said nothing which was suprising or difficult to accept. I find that surprising and difficult to accept.

It does seem suprising that the greatest teacher in the history of the world taught only what all good people already knew anyway.

Steven Carr

If your child was ill and you had the choice of going to hospital with it or going to church, which would you put first in your life? Your God or your child?

Jesus is merely saying that we should put God first, when we choose between family needs and God.

Steven Carr

I am curious as to why God commands people to love him.

Shouldn't we love God without being ordered to do so?

Or does 'command' not mean 'command'?

CJD

Your example is pitiful. Try reading with your eyes open sometime; it really is worth the effort!