jgreen44

Romans 13

The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

1 Corinthians 2

...we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Romans 13

3 Then do what is right and he (the ruler) will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he (the ruler) does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Maybe the "rulers of this age" spoken of in 1 Corinthians 2 were not earthly rulers? And if the "rulers of this age" were not earthly, was Christ's crucifixion earthly? After all, the earthly ruler "does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer".

Or maybe Romans 13 simply contradicts 1 Corinthians 2...and all of the gospels.

ApostateAbe

I believe Earl Doherty has speculated that the "rulers of this age" are demons. It seems to be purely ad hoc speculation, as demons seemingly were never otherwise thought to be rulers. In Judaism, God was thought to be the only spiritual ruler. But, it is perfectly expected that human beings, such as Tiberius, Pontius Pilate and the Sanhedrin would be called "rulers of this age," as they are both rulers and temporal. Nor am I aware of any spiritual sort of crucifixion, but physical crucifixion by Roman humans is very much a historical thing.

If you object on the basis that Romans 13 contradicts 1 Corinthians 2, then, well, those two passages seem inconsistent with each other regardless of one interpretation or the other, do they not?

jgreen44

Yes they do. And just to muddle things up a bit more...

Did the "rulers of this age" kill Jesus or was it the Jews?

1 Thessalonians 2:14-15

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus.

Or maybe the author(s) of the Pauline epistles would have us believe that the Jews were the "rulers of this age"?

Toto

Shooting from the hip again.

This is not mere speculation. There is a considerable body of scholarship indicating that "the rulers of this age" was a catch phrase referring to the demons who were supposed to be in control of the lower world.

JesusPuzzle It should be noted that the demons probably work through human agency, so this phrase is (barely) consistent with the idea that Pilate had Jesus crucified under demonic influence - but the "rulers of this age" does refer to spiritual rulers.

The most logical way of dealing with the contradictions between Romans and 1 Corinthians is to recognize the possibility of later interpolations. The passage from 1 Thessalonians is generally regarded as an interpolation, both because it does not fit Paul's general philosophy and because it would date Paul to the post 70 CE period, based on the phrase after the one quoted.

ApostateAbe

When someone says, "many scholars," I take that as code for, "a slim minority of scholars." If "many" scholars believed that the "rulers of this age" referred to spiritual rulers, then perhaps the evidence can be provided. I am not just going to take their word for it. If that is the way this game is played, then it should have ended long ago.

GakuseiDon

A simple test here is to substitute "demon" for "ruler". For example:

Romans 13
3 Then do what is right and he (the ruler) will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he (the ruler) does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Is it possible that Paul was referring to demons here? "Do what is right and the [demons] will praise you" makes it unlikely. This appears to be a reference to human rulers. I don't think anyone would doubt this.

What about 1 Cor 2? View it in context, and you can see that it is contrasting the "wisdom of men" and "the wisdom of God". I'll put "rulers of this age" side-by-side with "demons", and you can see how a meaning of "demons" seems out of place:

1 Corinthians 2

4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the wisdom of demons / the wisdom of human rulers, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the demons / the human rulers knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

Above, Paul writes that "we speak wisdom among those who are mature". It doesn't make much sense for Paul to be saying "but not the wisdom of demons." All the way through, Paul is contrasting human wisdom with God's. "The wisdom of demons" doesn't make much sense.

Keep in mind what Paul is saying in Romans 13: human rulers are, in a sense, "God's servants". I see this as Paul trying to place Christianity as a Roman-friendly cult. "The [human] rulers have wisdom, so should be obeyed. But if they had known God as we do, they wouldn't have crucified Jesus."

ApostateAbe

I think that is a good point. Paul seems to be laying the blame on the Jews in 1 Thessalonians, but he switches to something more vague and general, "rules of this age," in 1 Corinthians 2. Maybe he was trying to be more diplomatic to the Jews in 1 Corinthians 2.

jgreen44

But the author of Corinthians 2 says in verse 6 that these rulers are "coming to nothing". Other translations say these rulers are "passing away" or 'being destroyed". That doesn't sound very Roman-friendly. In fact, I imagine if the Roman authorities believed this passage was about them, the author of 1 Corinthians and any followers would have been arrested and charged with sedition.

jgreen44

From Origen's Homilies on Luke, pg.25:

"You will find that it was Christ's will that the devil should be ignorant of the coming of God's Son. For, the Apostle maintains that the opposing powers (Origen's standard term for the forces of evil) were ignorant of his Passion."

Origen then quotes the passage we are discussing, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8.

GakuseiDon

"(Barely) consistent"? Even if "rulers of this age" do mean "demons", is there any evidence -- other than Doherty's reading -- for an alternative?