FFT

Genesis 3 details the "fall." The chronology of events seems to be as follows:

1. Eve eats of the fruit
2. Eve gives the fruit to Adam
3. Adam eats

Now, Eve ate first, gaining the knowledge of Good and Evil, then gave the fruit to Adam. So she knew if giving the fruit to Adam was good or evil. Then God curses them both, yadda yadda yadda.

So, was Eve knowingly performing an Evil act, or a Good act?

Maybe, based on the OT, the Gnostics got it right.

Sigma

Eve was the evil one, i dunno why they always blame adam...

John A. Broussard

I think the crucial point is that god gave Eve free will so she could choose. Then he was disappointed with the choice.

It reminds me of a talk I once gave to a group of school administrators. I pointed out that "progressive" education gave the students choices.

One member of my audience popped up and said that was a great idea as long as the students made the right choices.

So, I guess that applies to all of god's children. They are free to choos--and damned if they make the wrong choice.

cajela

This reminds me of my favourite Xmas carol, Adam lay ybounden.

Verse 2:
Ne had the apple taken been, that apple taken been
Ne had never our lady abeen hevene queen
Blessed be the time that apple taken was!
Therefore we moun singen Deo Gracias!

Somewhat populist mediaeval answer: Good.

John A. Broussard

Wasn't there an evil female lurking around? I think her name was Lilith. I'm not sure of the source. Probably some non-canonical writings.

Toto

All about Lilith

Wallener

Interestingly, the direct instruction from G-d regarding the fruit comes before Eve is physically created.

John A. Broussard

Thanks for link. It's amazing what can be found in this forum.

Therese

I think in this context 'our lady' is referring to Mary, and not Eve. The song doesn't seem to refer to Eve at all, only Adam:

Adam lay ibounden
Bounden in a bond
Foure thousand winter
Thought he not too long
And all was for an apple
An apple that he tok
As clerkes finden
Wreten in here book

Ne hadde the apple take ben
The apple taken ben
Ne hadde never our lady
A ben hevene queen
Blissed be the time
That apple take was
Therefore we moun singen
"Deo gracias!"

Translation:

Adam lay in bondage
Slave to a contract
Of the four thousand winters
He didn't think at all
And all because of an apple
An apple that he scrumped
According to the writings our intellectuals
Have found in their book

But if that apple hadn't been taken
If that apple hadn't been scrumped
Our lady would never have been
The queen of heaven
So blessed be the moment
That apple was taken
It's down to that, that we can now sing
"Thanks be to god!"

As a side note, I had never heard this song used as an xmas carol before. I have only heard it on a Mediaeval Babes CD. Interesting.

Mageth

Why must Eve be good or evil?

I think the point is that she is like all of us - perfect, no; flawed, yes; and neither "good" nor "evil" in an absolute sense. Eve is human, in other words.