Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 03-01-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Arnoldo, I do not believe that it is all nonsense. "IT", The "Old Testament", "New Testament", "the Apocrypha of both", the "writings of the Church Fathers", and all other "Christian" literature, IS all "religiously motivated propaganda" and all were composed with very little regard for actual truth or history, existing only to support "The religious System" through the means of religious deception.

Thanks for the clarification . However even it it's all a religious deception it's still worth studying since "it," the OT/NT, has had such an impact on our world. Western Civilization is largely based on the Judeo/Christian ethic and Greco-Roman politics. Sadly, we seem to be living in a post- christian world and so far it's doesn't appear the secular humanists have any solutions.

Not a actual lack of solutions, just that such peaceful solutions and resolutions are never well recieved by those whose religious "persuasions", "convictions", and "doctrines", require them to support The System that they are willing members of, at all cost, even to the sacrificing of their personal integrity and honesty in the repeating and the promoting of those things that in their hearts they know to be false.
Under the self-delusion that the maintaining of a lie, is somehow better for the good of mankind, than confronting, and standing up for the actual truth.
And this is what such "religion" often neglects, is that TRUTH that is true indeed, IS greater, and more powerful than the sum of all "religious" sentiments or beliefs.
You want to serve the true God of Abraham? Then seek the real TRUTH, and serve the real TRUTH with all of your heart, with all of your mind, and with all of your strength.
For in doing this, neither any "God", nor any man, may ever rightly find fault.

arnoldo · 03-01-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Thanks for the clarification . However even it it's all a religious deception it's still worth studying since "it," the OT/NT, has had such an impact on our world. Western Civilization is largely based on the Judeo/Christian ethic and Greco-Roman politics. Sadly, we seem to be living in a post- christian world and so far it's doesn't appear the secular humanists have any solutions.

Not a actual lack of solutions, just that such peaceful solutions and resolutions are never well recieved by those whose religious "persuasions", "convictions", and "doctrines", require them to support The System that they are willing members of, at all cost, even to the sacrificing of their personal integrity and honesty in the repeating and the promoting of those things that in their hearts they know to be false.
Under the self-delusion that the maintaining of a lie, is somehow better for the good of mankind, than confronting, and standing up for the actual truth.
And this is what such "religion" often neglects, is that TRUTH that is true indeed, IS greater, and more powerful than the sum of all "religious" sentiments or beliefs.
You want to serve the true God of Abraham? Then seek the real TRUTH, and serve the real TRUTH with all of your heart, with all of your mind, and with all of your strength.
For in doing this, neither any "God", nor any man, may ever rightly find fault.

What is truth?

Sheshonq · 03-01-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshonq

Religion (and the religious people who try and enforce it on society, schools and government) are probably the biggest barrier to social and scientific progress today.

Yeah, fundies are the root of all evil :devil1:

And the biggest barriers to progress. Re-read what I wrote.

Headache · 03-01-2008, 09:46 AM

What has religion done to find a solution to HIV?
What has religion done to find a solution to poverty?
What has religion done to increase peoples lifespans?
What has religion done to the environment?
What has religion done to find new energy sources?
What has religion done to end racism?
What has religion done to make people safe and secure?
What has religion done to create new jobs?

What has religion done but create more poverty and more violence and more hatred?

Sheshbazzar · 03-01-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Not a actual lack of solutions, just that such peaceful solutions and resolutions are never well recieved by those whose religious "persuasions", "convictions", and "doctrines", require them to support The System that they are willing members of, at all cost, even to the sacrificing of their personal integrity and honesty in the repeating and the promoting of those things that in their hearts they know to be false.
Under the self-delusion that the maintaining of a lie, is somehow better for the good of mankind, than confronting, and standing up for the actual truth.
And this is what such "religion" often neglects, is that TRUTH that is true indeed, IS greater, and more powerful than the sum of all "religious" sentiments or beliefs.
You want to serve the true God of Abraham? Then seek the real TRUTH, and serve the real TRUTH with all of your heart, with all of your mind, and with all of your strength.
For in doing this, neither any "God", nor any man, may ever rightly find fault.

What is truth?

A certain "character" in one of your stories posed that exact same question. Is your mind as cynical as that one?
Would you make ignorance of the real truth to be your own epitaph?

You may not know what "TRUTH" is, but it is certainly well within your means to determine what is not the truth.

Roger Pearse · 03-01-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Disinterest in the NT seems an eminently rational position to me. If it's all nonsense, then why should we be interested.

You don't see why anyone would be interested in why "all nonsense" could survive for two thousand years to be one of the world's primary religions?

Not seriously, any more than I could imagine why someone who knew that he was to die tomorrow would spend his handful of hours writing a diatribe against the Jews. Hasn't he got anything better to do with the guttering candle of his life, than to engage in such polemics? Really? Surely not! Yet, if this life is all we have, that is the position of us all. I for one already find my days too few for my comfort.

Likewise my urge to study the origins of scientology is minimal. Who *cares*? Study something useful, interesting, and which fills our lives with delight and knowledge. Study of how other people are fools would twist us all.

The follies of my fellow-man are his problem. I shall not make them mine.

Not that I prescribe any rule for anyone else, of course.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Headache · 03-01-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

You don't see why anyone would be interested in why "all nonsense" could survive for two thousand years to be one of the world's primary religions?

Not seriously, any more than I could imagine why someone who knew that he was to die tomorrow would spend his handful of hours writing a diatribe against the Jews. Hasn't he got anything better to do with the guttering candle of his life, than to engage in such polemics? Really? Surely not! Yet, if this life is all we have, that is the position of us all. I for one already find my days too few for my comfort.

Likewise my urge to study the origins of scientology is minimal. Who *cares*? Study something useful, interesting, and which fills our lives with delight and knowledge. Study of how other people are fools would twist us all.

The follies of my fellow-man are his problem. I shall not make them mine.

Not that I prescribe any rule for anyone else, of course.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

What a self contradicting and ignorant post.

arnoldo · 03-01-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Not seriously, any more than I could imagine why someone who knew that he was to die tomorrow would spend his handful of hours writing a diatribe against the Jews. Hasn't he got anything better to do with the guttering candle of his life, than to engage in such polemics? Really? Surely not! Yet, if this life is all we have, that is the position of us all. I for one already find my days too few for my comfort.

Likewise my urge to study the origins of scientology is minimal. Who *cares*? Study something useful, interesting, and which fills our lives with delight and knowledge. Study of how other people are fools would twist us all.

The follies of my fellow-man are his problem. I shall not make them mine.

Not that I prescribe any rule for anyone else, of course.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

What a self contradicting and ignorant post.

I thought he made some good points about not wasting your life pointing your finger at other people's belief systems and instead try doing something productive with your own life. Que sera, sera.

Headache · 03-01-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache

What a self contradicting and ignorant post.

I thought he made some good points about not wasting your life pointing your finger at other people's belief systems and instead try doing something productive with your own life. Que sera, sera.

And are there anyone who does this more than christians?

When you and your fellow believers, tell me, an atheist, that I will burn in hell if I don't turn to god, what is that again?

When christians makes laws based on christian doctrine and tell me that I have to follow those, what is that again?

The problem is not us atheists, but you, the believers who are always pushing your beliefs on us. If you stop doing that, I will stop too!

Peter Kirby · 03-01-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache

The problem is not us atheists, but you, the believers who are always pushing your beliefs on us. If you stop doing that, I will stop too!

Ever heard of a vicious cycle? The idea here is that retaliatory methods do not have a termination condition, though they pretend to have one; everyone says they will stop if the other guy stops, but nobody stops (or at least not the philistines who practice retaliatory methods). It's the principle behind a lot of wars and feuds in every domain.

(Incidentally, It's also one of the things to which religions, including the Christian one, constructively proscribe a solution.)

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03-01-2008, 09:46 AM	#24
Headache Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Everywhere Posts: 2,582	What has religion done to find a solution to HIV? What has religion done to find a solution to poverty? What has religion done to increase peoples lifespans? What has religion done to the environment? What has religion done to find new energy sources? What has religion done to end racism? What has religion done to make people safe and secure? What has religion done to create new jobs? What has religion done but create more poverty and more violence and more hatred?

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