Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Norseman · 02-22-2004, 04:48 AM

Alright, I'm kind of pissed off at christianity at the moment, here's why:

1. I find a contradiction in the bible, I declare that if the bible were written by god it would have to be wholly true and thus the contradiction means only one of the quotes can be true, thus the bible was not written by god.

2. I'm told I'm not a christian therefore I can't interpret the bible, therefore it can't be a contradiction.

3. I realize that if I were christian I wouldn't be trying to disprove the bible, thus I wouldn't find contradictions.

4. I then ask one christian for one interpretation of a quote, and another christian for the other interpretation of the other quote.

5. I show that their interpretations are still contradictory, and they were christians so they could interpret the bible.

6. They each say that the other is not a true christian.

7. 5 days later some guy says "The bible hasn't been disproven in 2,000 years despite people's best efforts, god MUST be true".

8. And now I want to scream.

Doctor X · 02-22-2004, 05:06 AM

Welcome to our world. . . .

Instructs Seed to give him a "double dram" of the Oban. . . .

--J.D.

scaramallion · 02-22-2004, 05:35 AM

Seeing the world through Christ-coloured glasses...

Not long ago I was told that I needed to be a Christian in order to understand Dt 22:13-21. Anyone who's read that verse would understand my frustration at being told I needed "the Holy Spirit" in order to comprehend the verses.

And this was before she had even looked them up. :banghead:

Doctor X · 02-22-2004, 05:47 AM

It goes without saying that it is easier to cling to the comfortable lie rather than question and do research.

--J.D.

Norseman · 02-22-2004, 05:50 AM

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I've been repeating that little 8 peice circle several times a month, it's like groundhog day!

That wall looks better and better each time...

Gawen · 02-22-2004, 07:03 AM

Perhaps you didn't have your patented God-Goggles on?...

Acme's Milleniam 2004, Series D, Mark 4 is the newest out. (It has infra-red and xray vision too!!)

Oh...and blinders are extra.

However, if you suffer from rational thinking, you may have allergic reactions.

Welcome to the club, Norseman.

Postcard73 · 02-22-2004, 08:46 AM

Moving to GRD...

Scott (Postcard73)
BC&H Moderator

Vinnie · 02-22-2004, 08:59 AM

Quote:

7. 5 days later some guy says "The bible hasn't been disproven in 2,000 years despite people's best efforts, god MUST be true".

This article I wrote is all you need.

http://www.after-hourz.net/ri/biblecontradictions.html

A Practical Approach to the Babble Contradictions.

Vinnie

capnkirk · 02-22-2004, 01:54 PM

Norseman:

I usually start with the proposition: I'll forgive you your religion if you'll forgive me my lack of one.

If they can't even accept that, then shut up and save yourself a ration of grief. The simple fact is that people believe because they CHOOSE to. They may 'choose to' for several reasons, but the reason is ultimately immaterial.

Recovery from Religious belief is like recovery from any other addiction; recovery requires the onset of a paradigm shift precipitated by a wholly internal subjective "epiphany" if you will. Being non-rational, it is invulnerable to rational arguments...so don't waste your time. No one has ever "created" doubts in a believer; at most, one may awaken doubts that were already there. As with drug or alcohol addiction, this catharsis cannot be coerced, nagged, or argued into fruition. When THEY are ready, it will come of its own accord. The best you can do is to be there as it is happening, recognize it, and encourage it.

So, think of detoxing Xtians like it was triage. The first thing is to decide whether this person has any hope of recovery. If not, move on to the next one and repeat the evaluation. Continue until the answer is "yes", then ask your questions or make your case.

Heurismus · 02-22-2004, 06:51 PM

Doctor X

I couldn't help but notice, your penchant for a wee dram or two. We can sit here in virtual reality and drink a toast to the memory of all; 'here's tae us, whoas like us'. Slanche!!!
But ye knew I'd have a sniff at that! Cheers and Good health, what the Hell.

:boohoo: Thats just ma wee fiddler, pay him no mind!!!

02-22-2004, 04:48 AM	#1
Norseman Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Siberia Posts: 2,441	Biblical Question Alright, I'm kind of pissed off at christianity at the moment, here's why: 1. I find a contradiction in the bible, I declare that if the bible were written by god it would have to be wholly true and thus the contradiction means only one of the quotes can be true, thus the bible was not written by god. 2. I'm told I'm not a christian therefore I can't interpret the bible, therefore it can't be a contradiction. 3. I realize that if I were christian I wouldn't be trying to disprove the bible, thus I wouldn't find contradictions. 4. I then ask one christian for one interpretation of a quote, and another christian for the other interpretation of the other quote. 5. I show that their interpretations are still contradictory, and they were christians so they could interpret the bible. 6. They each say that the other is not a true christian. 7. 5 days later some guy says "The bible hasn't been disproven in 2,000 years despite people's best efforts, god MUST be true". 8. And now I want to scream.

02-22-2004, 01:54 PM	#9
capnkirk Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: where no one has gone before Posts: 735	Dealing with Xtains Norseman: I usually start with the proposition: I'll forgive you your religion if you'll forgive me my lack of one. If they can't even accept that, then shut up and save yourself a ration of grief. The simple fact is that people believe because they CHOOSE to. They may 'choose to' for several reasons, but the reason is ultimately immaterial. Recovery from Religious belief is like recovery from any other addiction; recovery requires the onset of a paradigm shift precipitated by a wholly internal subjective "epiphany" if you will. Being non-rational, it is invulnerable to rational arguments...so don't waste your time. No one has ever "created" doubts in a believer; at most, one may awaken doubts that were already there. As with drug or alcohol addiction, this catharsis cannot be coerced, nagged, or argued into fruition. When THEY are ready, it will come of its own accord. The best you can do is to be there as it is happening, recognize it, and encourage it. So, think of detoxing Xtians like it was triage. The first thing is to decide whether this person has any hope of recovery. If not, move on to the next one and repeat the evaluation. Continue until the answer is "yes", then ask your questions or make your case.

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02-22-2004, 05:06 AM	#2
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Welcome to our world. . . . Instructs Seed to give him a "double dram" of the Oban. . . . --J.D.

02-22-2004, 05:35 AM	#3
scaramallion Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Surrounded by Opiates Posts: 154	Seeing the world through Christ-coloured glasses... Not long ago I was told that I needed to be a Christian in order to understand Dt 22:13-21. Anyone who's read that verse would understand my frustration at being told I needed "the Holy Spirit" in order to comprehend the verses. And this was before she had even looked them up. :banghead:

02-22-2004, 05:47 AM	#4
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	It goes without saying that it is easier to cling to the comfortable lie rather than question and do research. --J.D.

02-22-2004, 05:50 AM	#5
Norseman Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Siberia Posts: 2,441	:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I've been repeating that little 8 peice circle several times a month, it's like groundhog day! That wall looks better and better each time...

02-22-2004, 07:03 AM	#6
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Perhaps you didn't have your patented God-Goggles on?... Acme's Milleniam 2004, Series D, Mark 4 is the newest out. (It has infra-red and xray vision too!!) Oh...and blinders are extra. However, if you suffer from rational thinking, you may have allergic reactions. Welcome to the club, Norseman.

02-22-2004, 08:46 AM	#7
Postcard73 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Roanoke, VA. Posts: 2,198	Moving to GRD... Scott (Postcard73) BC&H Moderator

02-22-2004, 06:51 PM	#10
Heurismus Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: West London Posts: 2,337	Doctor X I couldn't help but notice, your penchant for a wee dram or two. We can sit here in virtual reality and drink a toast to the memory of all; 'here's tae us, whoas like us'. Slanche!!! But ye knew I'd have a sniff at that! Cheers and Good health, what the Hell. :boohoo: Thats just ma wee fiddler, pay him no mind!!!

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