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Onias · 02-02-2013, 07:55 AM

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Chili · 02-02-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Israel is the promise and 12 tribes are needed to get there as canopy of your own.

outhouse · 02-02-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Abraham is a literary creation.

Why dont you post the passage of Pauls in question.

Whats your point here?

thief of fire · 02-02-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Here is a point.
When this "seed" is mentioned in the hebrew bible and jewish extra canonical writings, does it always refer to the 12 tribes?

Onias · 02-03-2013, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thief of fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Here is a point.
When this "seed" is mentioned in the hebrew bible and jewish extra canonical writings, does it always refer to the 12 tribes?

If the seed of Abraham refers to his offspring, it would have to refer to the 12 tribes of his descendant, Jacob. . . but it could also refer to the descendants if Ishmael.

Onias · 02-03-2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel?

Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

Abraham is a literary creation.

Why dont you post the passage of Pauls in question.

Whats your point here?

I did not post the passage from Paul yet because I wanted readers to view this obliquely.

thief of fire · 02-03-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

Quote:

Originally Posted by thief of fire

Here is a point.
When this "seed" is mentioned in the hebrew bible and jewish extra canonical writings, does it always refer to the 12 tribes?

If the seed of Abraham refers to his offspring, it would have to refer to the 12 tribes of his descendant, Jacob. . . but it could also refer to the descendants if Ishmael.

Could it refer to the offspring of his 318 fighting men?

Onias · 02-03-2013, 02:21 PM

According to Gal 3:16, The promises were made to Abraham . . . . and his Seed, whom Paul thinks is Christ! Does that make sense or is this yet another misinterpretation or mistranslation of OT scripture?

thief of fire · 02-04-2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

According to Gal 3:16, The promises were made to Abraham . . . . and his Seed, whom Paul thinks is Christ! Does that make sense or is this yet another misinterpretation or mistranslation of OT scripture?

1. Does seed just mean descendent or offspring?
2.Is it ok to reinterpret the Hebrew bible?

We can easily find instances of jewish interpreters seeing a "seed" that is an individual, that is/was to come, as the DSS show.

Quote:

. . . [I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them in order that they may dwell there and no more be troubled by their] enemies. No son of iniquity [will afflict them again] as before, from the day that 2 [I set judges] over my people Israel (2 Sam 7:10). This is the house which [ in the] last days according as it is written in the book 3 [ the sanctuary, O Lord,] which your hands have established, Yahweh shall reign for ever and ever (Exod 15:17-18) This is the house in which [ ] shall not enter there 4 [ f]orever, nor the Ammonite, the Moabite, nor the bastard, nor the foreigner, nor the stranger forever because there shall be the ones who bear the holy name 5 [f]orever. Continually it will appear above it. And strangers will no longer destroy it as they previously destroyed 6 the sanctuary of Israel because of its sins. He commanded that a sanctuary of men be built for himself in order to offer up to him like the smoke of incense 7 the works of the Law And according to his words to David, (2 "And I [will give] you [rest] from all your enemies" (2 Sam 7:11). This means that he will give them rest from a[ll] 8 the sons of Belial, who cause them to stumble to destroy them [ ] according as they come with a plan of [B]el[i]al to cause the s[ons of] 9 light to stumble, to think upon them wicked plans in order to deli[ver] his [s]oul to Belial in their w[ic]ked error. 10 [And] Yahweh has [de]clared to you that he will build you a house (2 Sam 7:11c). I will raise up your seed after you (2 Sam 7:12). I will establish the throne of his kingdom 11 f[orever] (2 Sam 7:13). I wi[ll be] a father to me and he shall be a son to me (2 Sam 7:14). He is the branch of David who will arise with the interpreter of the Law who 12 [ ] in Zi[on in the la]st days according as it is written: "I will raise up the tent of 13 David that has falle[n] (Amos 9:11), who will arise to save Israel. 14 An in[ter]pretation of "Blessed is [the] man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked" (Ps 1:1). Interpretation of the wor[d concerns] those who depart from the way [ ] 15 which is written in the Book of Isaiah the prophet for the last [d]ays, "It happened that with a strong [hand he turned me aside from walking on the path] of 16 this people" (Isa 8:11). And they are those about whom it is written in the Book of Ezekiel the prophet, "[They should] not [defile themselves any longer with all] 17 their idols (Ezek 37:23; see 44:10). These are the sons of Zadok and the m[e]n of his his cou[ns]el [ ] after them to the council of the community. 18 "[Why] do the nations [rag]e and the people im[agine] a vain thing? [Kings of the earth] ris[e up] and [and p]rinces conspire together against Yahweh and against [his anointed] (Ps 2:1-2). 19 [In]terpretation of the saying [concerns na]tions and th[ey ] the chosen of Israel in the last days.

So if Paul wants to claim Jesus is/was Abrahams seed, is that so strange, and without justification?

Those are my thoughts anyway

semiopen · 02-05-2013, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onias

I did not post the passage from Paul yet because I wanted readers to view this obliquely.

Merneptah_Stele

Quote:

Israel is laid waste and his seed is not

What is the difference between a stele and an obelisk?

Quote:

An obelisk refers to a particular shape, four sides with a pyramid on top. A stele can be of any shape, both carved an engraved. You could fairly say that an obelisk is a stele, but you couldn't say that a stele is always an obelisk.

02-02-2013, 07:55 AM	#1
Onias Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Primary residence in New York State Posts: 231	Who are the Seed of Abraham? Were God's promises made to Abraham and his seed, his offspring, the 12 tribes of Israel? Why does Apostle Paul disagree with this? How is that possible? Does it make sense?

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02-03-2013, 02:21 PM	#8
Onias Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Primary residence in New York State Posts: 231	According to Gal 3:16, The promises were made to Abraham . . . . and his Seed, whom Paul thinks is Christ! Does that make sense or is this yet another misinterpretation or mistranslation of OT scripture?

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