Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dlawbailey · 09-13-2007, 12:09 AM

In Seattle we have this infection called the "Mars Hill" church.

It is a VERY strange theology-like-substance.

People had told me about it, and that it worried them but I had ignored it. I figured it was the standard American fundamentalism. I'm really familiar with the standard, "Southern-Style" Pentacostalist preaching that dominates the television. I really find that sort of old-hat now. I know where those guys are going as soon as they open their mouths and I can explain to people how you can make fun of them, trip them up - the whole business.

[ Side Note - It derives from "Gospel" style of preaching, of course and I actually like the sound of this preaching. It sounds very American and comforting. I like to hear how the preacher moves the congregation closer and closer to the group exaltation at the finish. I've never been anything but an atheist so religion doesn't offend me - well, mostly. I used to force myself to listen to religious broadcasting (I couldn't watch) to listen for the political messaging that would later find its way to Republicans. Anyway....]

But I'm afraid this Mark Driscoll is a different breed of cat. His style is very strange. He's very macho and somewhat combative. His main "doctrine" is the ardently sexist "Complimentarianism". But above all, he has a trick of being incredibly egotistical while asserting that he's a humble sinner in a lot of different ways.

I can figure out almost any preacher and what their theological gimmick is. But maybe it's because I immediately want to smack this jerk-off that I am not getting his gimmick. Nevertheless, folks out here in Seattle could use a little help getting a counter-message to this guy.

Thanks

Goathead · 09-13-2007, 12:40 AM

Driscoll graduated in 1989 from Highline High School, where he served as student body president and editor of the school newspaper. He earned a Bachelor's degree in communications from Washington State University with a minor in philosophy. Currently, he is completing a Master of Arts degree in exegetical theology at Western Seminary, a school affiliated with the Conservative Baptist Association. - Sir Wiki.

In addition to being a pastor with no paper, he has a communications degree - and if that doesnt wake your people up then break out the locusts my son.

Seriously though, this is an increasingly common idea, that men and women have clearly defined roles in family and social life - its interesting because it not necesarily a religious ideal.Many adherants are very much secular people.

His angle is setting up a harem, he effects the alpha ape persona, suplements it with a healthy dose of egoism, slight indifference and a show at being both repentant and self obsessed.If he werent so "macho" it wouldnt work any where as well, and thats because it makes him look like a altruistic pablo escobar, kind of dangerous, but mostly to your enemies, and in your name.

Someone else here wil have a nicer sounding idea, but thats mine.

Advice? "Protect Ya Neck".

Toto · 09-13-2007, 12:49 AM

This article might help explain the phenomenon.

Mars Hill

Quote:

The way Driscoll sees it, the more babies his conservative Christian congregation can produce in this child-poor city, the more they can redirect local politics, public education, and culture in one of the liberal capitals of the world. To complete his trifecta of indoctrinating, voting, and breeding, Driscoll has developed a community that dwarfs any living experiment of the '60s. To say that Mars Hill is just a church is to say that Woodstock was just a concert.

Mars Hill wrests future converts searching for identity and purpose from the dominion of available sex and drugs that still make post-grunge Seattle a countercultural destination. Driscoll promises his followers they don't have to reprogram their iTunes catalog along with their beliefs -- culture from outside the Christian fold isn't just tolerated here, it's cherished. Hipster culture is what sweetens the proverbial Kool-Aid, which parishioners here seem to gulp by the gallon. This is a land where housewives cradle babies in tattooed arms, where young men balance responsibilities as breadwinners in their families and lead guitarists in their local rock bands, and where biblical orthodoxy rules as strictly as in Hasidism or Opus Dei.

Following Driscoll's biblical reading of prescribed gender roles, women quit their jobs and try to have as many babies as possible. And these are no mere women who fear independence, who are looking to live by the simple tenets of fundamentalist credo, enforced by a commanding husband: many of the women of Mars Hill reluctantly abandon successful lives lived on their own terms to serve their husbands and their Lord. Accountability and community is ballasted by intricately organized cells -- gender-isolated support groups that form a social life as warm and tight as swaddling clothes, or weekly coed sermon studies and family dinner parties that provide further insulation against the secular world. Parents share child care, realtors share clients, teachers share lesson plans, anim?uffs share DVDs, and bands share songs.

I don't know how this forum can help you. Mars Hill is a classic cult. It uses loud music, emotional hooks, and social cohesion, feeding on the natural human need for psychological closeness. It looks like they recruit people and then keep them too busy to question what is happening.

dlawbailey · 09-13-2007, 12:49 AM

I have very little experience with Calvinism.

Ray Moscow · 09-13-2007, 02:38 AM

It doesn't sound like anything new. It's more of the "surrended wife" crap.

Most fundamentalism has a lot of Calvinism in it, which is sort of ironic in that its evangelism contradicts its own theology. It's an old conflict.

My motto? Think of it as a business, and it all makes sense.

Ray

Toto · 09-13-2007, 12:42 PM

Let's see if the folks in GRD can add anything to this.

RED DAVE · 09-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Here's some dirt on Driscoll.

http://www.evangelicalright.com/2006...d_as_if_1.html

If I was in Seattle and had to deal with scumbags like this, I'd start forcing some confrontations: go to his nightclub wearing a prominent button that says, "Driscoll is a homophobe!" etc. Pretty soon, the right-wing violence in turds like him will start to come out.

Polarization is what needed. People who belong to this cult have to be shown that they can't get away with it ... in public.

RED DAVE

IonMic · 09-15-2007, 12:38 PM

Anyone responsible for the quotes below is surely very easy to poke fun of....

Quote:

"After church tonight you will go home and you will eat chicken, not human, because of the spread of Christianity... go to a country where there hasn’t been the spread of Christianity and they’re having human for dinner."

Quote:

You have been told that God is loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we're all good people. That is a lie... God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,' and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says 'Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.' This is a miracle.

Stumpjumper · 09-15-2007, 12:46 PM

He does sound a bit out there with this:

Quote:

Following Driscoll's biblical reading of prescribed gender roles, women quit their jobs and try to have as many babies as possible. And these are no mere women who fear independence, who are looking to live by the simple tenets of fundamentalist credo, enforced by a commanding husband: many of the women of Mars Hill reluctantly abandon successful lives lived on their own terms to serve their husbands and their Lord. Accountability and community is ballasted by intricately organized cells -- gender-isolated support groups that form a social life as warm and tight as swaddling clothes, or weekly coed sermon studies and family dinner parties that provide further insulation against the secular world.

I don't know what you or anyone else can do, though. If they aren't bothering you or harming society in concrete ways nothing should be done anyway from my perspective...

09-13-2007, 12:09 AM	#1
dlawbailey Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 351	Please Help Me With This Weird Pastor [Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill] In Seattle we have this infection called the "Mars Hill" church. It is a VERY strange theology-like-substance. People had told me about it, and that it worried them but I had ignored it. I figured it was the standard American fundamentalism. I'm really familiar with the standard, "Southern-Style" Pentacostalist preaching that dominates the television. I really find that sort of old-hat now. I know where those guys are going as soon as they open their mouths and I can explain to people how you can make fun of them, trip them up - the whole business. [ Side Note - It derives from "Gospel" style of preaching, of course and I actually like the sound of this preaching. It sounds very American and comforting. I like to hear how the preacher moves the congregation closer and closer to the group exaltation at the finish. I've never been anything but an atheist so religion doesn't offend me - well, mostly. I used to force myself to listen to religious broadcasting (I couldn't watch) to listen for the political messaging that would later find its way to Republicans. Anyway....] But I'm afraid this Mark Driscoll is a different breed of cat. His style is very strange. He's very macho and somewhat combative. His main "doctrine" is the ardently sexist "Complimentarianism". But above all, he has a trick of being incredibly egotistical while asserting that he's a humble sinner in a lot of different ways. I can figure out almost any preacher and what their theological gimmick is. But maybe it's because I immediately want to smack this jerk-off that I am not getting his gimmick. Nevertheless, folks out here in Seattle could use a little help getting a counter-message to this guy. Thanks

09-13-2007, 12:49 AM	#4
dlawbailey Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 351	He's a Calvinist, that's the trouble. I have very little experience with Calvinism.

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09-13-2007, 12:40 AM	#2
Goathead Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Australia, between desert and ocean. Posts: 1,953	Driscoll graduated in 1989 from Highline High School, where he served as student body president and editor of the school newspaper. He earned a Bachelor's degree in communications from Washington State University with a minor in philosophy. Currently, he is completing a Master of Arts degree in exegetical theology at Western Seminary, a school affiliated with the Conservative Baptist Association. - Sir Wiki. In addition to being a pastor with no paper, he has a communications degree - and if that doesnt wake your people up then break out the locusts my son. Seriously though, this is an increasingly common idea, that men and women have clearly defined roles in family and social life - its interesting because it not necesarily a religious ideal.Many adherants are very much secular people. His angle is setting up a harem, he effects the alpha ape persona, suplements it with a healthy dose of egoism, slight indifference and a show at being both repentant and self obsessed.If he werent so "macho" it wouldnt work any where as well, and thats because it makes him look like a altruistic pablo escobar, kind of dangerous, but mostly to your enemies, and in your name. Someone else here wil have a nicer sounding idea, but thats mine. Advice? "Protect Ya Neck".

09-13-2007, 02:38 AM	#5
Ray Moscow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 1,255	It doesn't sound like anything new. It's more of the "surrended wife" crap. Most fundamentalism has a lot of Calvinism in it, which is sort of ironic in that its evangelism contradicts its own theology. It's an old conflict. My motto? Think of it as a business, and it all makes sense. Ray

09-13-2007, 12:42 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Let's see if the folks in GRD can add anything to this.

09-13-2007, 06:00 PM	#7
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	Here's some dirt on Driscoll. http://www.evangelicalright.com/2006...d_as_if_1.html If I was in Seattle and had to deal with scumbags like this, I'd start forcing some confrontations: go to his nightclub wearing a prominent button that says, "Driscoll is a homophobe!" etc. Pretty soon, the right-wing violence in turds like him will start to come out. Polarization is what needed. People who belong to this cult have to be shown that they can't get away with it ... in public. RED DAVE

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