Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sentinel00 · 03-14-2006, 02:37 PM

I was thinking about the Noah's Ark story, and I had a thought about God's perfection and how this story might show a possible whole in that perfection.

When the flood was over, and god gave his promise to never again destroy the world via flood again, he made the rainbow, right? (I don't have my bible any more, so I can't look this up.) Now, does that mean that prior to the flood, water did not refract light into a rainbow? Does this mean that God changed water's properties after the flood? Does this mean that, at creation, when god created the oceans and saw that they were good... didn't see that water was unable to refract light? Does this mean water was less perfect before the flood?

nygreenguy · 03-14-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel00

I was thinking about the Noah's Ark story, and I had a thought about God's perfection and how this story might show a possible whole in that perfection.

When the flood was over, and god gave his promise to never again destroy the world via flood again, he made the rainbow, right? (I don't have my bible any more, so I can't look this up.) Now, does that mean that prior to the flood, water did not refract light into a rainbow? Does this mean that God changed water's properties after the flood? Does this mean that, at creation, when god created the oceans and saw that they were good... didn't see that water was unable to refract light? Does this mean water was less perfect before the flood?

hey, ive always wondered the same thing!

sabalseed · 03-14-2006, 03:35 PM

I see no way primative(neo primative?)man could have built any ship so big,especially just one man.Im quite sure this is not the ark.Im sure this has a more mundane explanation.I guess the only way to finally dismiss it is to have an"ark"eologist dig there.

Tigers! · 03-14-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel00

I was thinking about the Noah's Ark story, and I had a thought about God's perfection and how this story might show a possible whole in that perfection.

When the flood was over, and god gave his promise to never again destroy the world via flood again, he made the rainbow, right? (I don't have my bible any more, so I can't look this up.) Now, does that mean that prior to the flood, water did not refract light into a rainbow? Does this mean that God changed water's properties after the flood? Does this mean that, at creation, when god created the oceans and saw that they were good... didn't see that water was unable to refract light? Does this mean water was less perfect before the flood?

Rainbows existed before the flood. As you point out it is a measure of the characteristics of water. The flood did not change the characteristics of water. The rainbow was given a new meaning - a reminder that never again would a flood destroy the earth. Did rainbows have meaning before the flood (in case someone asks)? I have no idea.

sentinel00 · 03-14-2006, 03:50 PM

So... god re-gifted the rainbow? What a jip!

Zora · 03-14-2006, 03:50 PM

I'm not a chemist, but if you changed the properties of water (H2O), wouldn't you have something OTHER than water???? And, haven't we already determined that given the properties of wood, a ship of that size could not have been built, let alone float, since it would have broken into pieces from its own weight?

To address one of the original questions, if a boat were to be found, I would first want to determine that it was actually THE Noah's ark by more than one method of dating ancient objects, DNA analysis of animal waste, etc. Given the Christian penchant for constucting fake artifacts to suit Biblical stories (like the James ossuary and shroud of Turin) I wouldn't consider it beyond the realm of possibility for people to haul timber up the damned mountain to create a religious "Disneyland" so to speak.

If, after rigorous SCIENTIFIC testing by a multi-national team of real scientists, the thing was found to be a large boat of that era, I would still not be convinced that the Bible is true in total. All I would really know was that a large boat was on the mountain and that it may be the source of the Noah legend (or the Epic of Gilgamesh flood story, or the other ark/flood story.) I most certainly would not know that the Bible is true or that the god of the Bible was the real deal.

Copper Scroll · 03-14-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Rainbows existed before the flood. As you point out it is a measure of the characteristics of water. The flood did not change the characteristics of water. The rainbow was given a new meaning - a reminder that never again would a flood destroy the earth.

Agreed. Nothing in the following states or implies that the rainbow God placed in the sky after the flood was the first:

8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 "I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

12 And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."

17 So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth."

(Genesis 9)

Tigers! · 03-14-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel00

So... god re-gifted the rainbow? What a jip!

What were you expecting?

Desty Nova · 03-14-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copper Scroll

Agreed. Nothing in the following states or implies that the rainbow God placed in the sky after the flood was the first:

16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."

17 So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth."

(Genesis 9)

So let me get this right- god was giving Noah something he already had??

Copper Scroll · 03-14-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desty Nova

So let me get this right- god was giving Noah something he already had??

He wasn't giving Noah the rainbow at all--I don't think. He was establishing the rainbow as a symbol and reminder of His covenant with Noah.

03-14-2006, 02:37 PM	#1
sentinel00 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Mayor of Terminus Posts: 7,616	Questions concerning Noah's Ark story I was thinking about the Noah's Ark story, and I had a thought about God's perfection and how this story might show a possible whole in that perfection. When the flood was over, and god gave his promise to never again destroy the world via flood again, he made the rainbow, right? (I don't have my bible any more, so I can't look this up.) Now, does that mean that prior to the flood, water did not refract light into a rainbow? Does this mean that God changed water's properties after the flood? Does this mean that, at creation, when god created the oceans and saw that they were good... didn't see that water was unable to refract light? Does this mean water was less perfect before the flood?

03-14-2006, 03:35 PM	#3
sabalseed Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: elberta alabama Posts: 153	size of"ark" I see no way primative(neo primative?)man could have built any ship so big,especially just one man.Im quite sure this is not the ark.Im sure this has a more mundane explanation.I guess the only way to finally dismiss it is to have an"ark"eologist dig there.

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03-14-2006, 03:50 PM	#5
sentinel00 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Mayor of Terminus Posts: 7,616	So... god re-gifted the rainbow? What a jip!

03-14-2006, 03:50 PM	#6
Zora Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Missouri Posts: 571	I'm not a chemist, but if you changed the properties of water (H2O), wouldn't you have something OTHER than water???? And, haven't we already determined that given the properties of wood, a ship of that size could not have been built, let alone float, since it would have broken into pieces from its own weight? To address one of the original questions, if a boat were to be found, I would first want to determine that it was actually THE Noah's ark by more than one method of dating ancient objects, DNA analysis of animal waste, etc. Given the Christian penchant for constucting fake artifacts to suit Biblical stories (like the James ossuary and shroud of Turin) I wouldn't consider it beyond the realm of possibility for people to haul timber up the damned mountain to create a religious "Disneyland" so to speak. If, after rigorous SCIENTIFIC testing by a multi-national team of real scientists, the thing was found to be a large boat of that era, I would still not be convinced that the Bible is true in total. All I would really know was that a large boat was on the mountain and that it may be the source of the Noah legend (or the Epic of Gilgamesh flood story, or the other ark/flood story.) I most certainly would not know that the Bible is true or that the god of the Bible was the real deal.

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