aa5874

Again, it is wholly absurd and unheard of to use a poll as corroboration for the description of a character who has no history outside the Bible and is a Myth in non-biblical sources.

HJers seem unwilling to accept the Mythological description of Jesus and are attempting to RE-WRITE the accepted biography of Jesus.

It is known that the credibility and historical accuracy of any source is directly related to corroboration but not on Imagination.

The authors of the books of the Canon appear to corroborate a Mythological Jesus and apologetic sources are in full agreement with the Canon.

Apologetic sources with full use of books found in the Canon declared Jesus was indeed or Believed to have had NO human father, was the Child of a Ghost, God the Creator, that walked on water, transfigured, crucified, resurrected and ascended in a cloud.

In effect, Jesus had NO real history.

However, it is Most important to remember that the Jesus of the NT Canon, the Holy Ghost's Son was COMPLETELY Plausible.

And to demonstrate that the Holy Ghost Jesus was completely Plausible we ONLY have to examine gMatthew and gLuke.

In antiquity, the claim that Jesus was the Child of a Holy Ghost ENHANCED the credibility and historical accuracy of the story.

When Origen argued against Celsus the Holy Ghost Conception of Jesus was used as Evidence that Celsus lied when he claimed Jesus was the ison of Panthera.

"Against Celsus" 1 In antiquity, when the author of gMark wrote that Jesus was SEEN walking on water and Transfigured it would appear that the authors of gMatthew and gLuke knew that Jesus was indeed truly the Son of a Ghost.

But, the author of gJohn, after having read their stories had NO doubt Jesus was God and the Creator who existed before ALL things.

The Four Jesus stories in the Canon were selected for their "historical accuracy" and were WELL accepted as truthful in antiquity.

In antiquity The claim that Jesus was the Child of a Holy Ghost was just as credible as the claim that Pilate was a Governor under Tiberius and that Caiaphas was High Priest and that is PRECISELY why it is so recorded.

HJers fail to understand the Gospels--they are about Jesus the Son of a Ghost, the angel Gabriel, the God of Moses and Satan the Devil.

Diogenes the Cynic

It is, but it has no application to this thread since it has nothing to do with interpreting texts.

tanya

Rewrite:
"This thread has nothing to do with interpreting texts."

Hmmm?

So, then, these features you have listed, (e.g. crucifixion, existence of disciples, etc, etc) are not based on some kind of text?

How strange...

What, the origins of earliest Christianity, the underlying theme which serves as your motive for elaborating this thread, is based not on texts, but on coins? temples? murals? stone carvings?

:huh:

Diogenes the Cynic

Those questions have nothing to do with interpeting text, no. They have to do with finding out whether or not mythicists are willing to define "Jesus" as anything but the text.

tanya

I am completely confused (anyway!) by this comment.

How else can we define "Jesus", presumably, Jesus of Capernaum, except by the text, which declares (Mark 1:1):
"...Jesus Christ, son of YHWH"

Did you intend, instead, to write, "...whether or not mythicists are willing to ignore the text"?

But, with what would you replace this text? Coins? Temples? Carvings? Paintings? What objects should one employ to clarify the nature of anyone/anything? How can a person "define" Jesus, or Superman, or Hercules, or Paul Bunyan, or any other fictional character, except by what is written in the text? Do I understand you correctly, you have created this thread to learn how mythicists would "define" Jesus, absent text?

What do you use, if not the text, to "define" Yossarian?

:huh:

aa5874

Your blatant fallacies continue.

It is the TEXT that DESCRIBE or DEFINE the characters and their actions--not a poll. The very name JESUS is from the Text.

In the NT we read that

Pilate was a Governor

Gabriel was an angel

Caiaphas was an High Preist.

Satan was the Devil.

Tiberius was Caesar.

Herod the Great was King.

God was the God of the Jews.

Herod was tetrarch of Galilee.

Jesus was a Son of a Ghost and God the Creator

It is the details of these NT character that MUST be used to LOCATE them in CREDIBLE historical sources.

It was the TEXT that described the actions of Robin Hood and gave us his name so we cannot ignore or discard parts of the story.

It is virtually impossible to find any credible evidence from antiquity of a human being called Jesus Christ of Nazareth before the Fall of the Temple or before c 70 CE.

No Pauline letter will ever be found that was written before c 70 CE.

JonA

And what filed is that?

J-D

I don't know who understands the Gospels and who doesn't, but I know that I have never seen anybody understand you.

J-D

How people define a term depends on their purpose. One common reason why people define a term is because they think it will help them to communicate their meaning clearly. One common reason why people discuss somebody else's definition of a term is because they think it will help them to understand more clearly whatever it is that the other person is trying to communicate. I don't know whether your purpose in discussing definitions is one of these, or both, or something else.

jdl

Aeronautical engineering.