Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gawen · 05-28-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

1. The story really *is* a rehashing of Horus raising Osiris designed to appeal to Egyptians.

Honestly, I don't want to skew the thread, but...If there IS a parallel between Horus/Osiris/Jesus, then why can't Moses have a parallel of Akhenaten or an Akhenaten priest or something?

Dave31 · 05-28-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

ApostateAbe "With nothing but last names, I still don't know what those sources are, but they seem to be secondary sources, not primary (original) sources of ancient Egyptian, and that is probably all I really need to know."

Those are highly respected Egyptologists commenting on primary sources. She provided the primary sources in the text. If you knew anything about Egyptology you'd recognize those names. "AEPT" stands for Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts and they are around 4,400 years old. PT stands for Pyramid Text. CT stands for Coffin Text. So Acharya provided 3 highly credible and respected sources for that one footnote and she does that quite a bit throughout Christ in Egypt. I suppose that would make the nearly 2,400 footnotes considerably higher in that book. So, your comment below is extremely insulting and disrespectful not only to her, but also towards her sources.

Quote:

ApostateAbe "Sometimes, when Acharya S makes an unusual claim, she has nothing but secondary sources that are traceable only to a mysterious void. At least, that is her reputation."

mmm nope, that's just your own assumption. The fact is you've never actually read a single book of Acharya's. Your own reputation here is well known at constantly maliciously smearing Acharya without ever having actually read her work. Your ignorance on these issues is your own fault, not Acharya's. If you're not interested in this topic then maybe you shouldn't post. Your opinion isn't worth anything. Just because I'm not going to spoon-feed you info from a 600 page book that you refuse to read doesn't mean your ignorance is correct. Understand?

Quote:

"Is there "a feast celebrating the resurrection" of Lazarus, or is there not?"

Yes. It has already been provided.

ApostateAbe · 05-28-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave31

Quote:

ApostateAbe "With nothing but last names, I still don't know what those sources are, but they seem to be secondary sources, not primary (original) sources of ancient Egyptian, and that is probably all I really need to know."

Those are highly respected Egyptologists commenting on primary sources. She provided the primary sources in the text. If you knew anything about Egyptology you'd recognize those names. "AEPT" stands for Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts and they are around 4,400 years old. PT stands for Pyramid Text. CT stands for Coffin Text. So Acharya provided 3 highly credible and respected sources for that one footnote and she does that quite a bit throughout Christ in Egypt. I suppose that would make the nearly 2,400 footnotes considerably higher in that book. So, your comment below is extremely insulting and disrespectful not only to her, but also towards her sources.

Thank you for your patience and persistence in this matter, Dave31. I am not familiar with Egyptology, and most of us here in this forum are not, so it is perhaps best to be explicit with your meaning, not academically obscure. Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts edited by R. O. Faulkner is published online, so I was able to look up page 138 for the quote in question, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you for four days." The translation of Faulkner has it, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days." Here is the context:

A boon which Anubis, Foremost of the Westerners, grants! Your thousand of bread, your thousand of beer, your thousand of ointment, your thousand of alabaster, your thousand of clothing, your thousand of cattle! The goose is decapitated for you, the trp-bird is slaughtered for you, Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days, Seth has annulled what he did against you in your eight days.

Do you happen to know what "in your eight days" refers to? Thanks.

spamandham · 05-28-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawen

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

1. The story really *is* a rehashing of Horus raising Osiris designed to appeal to Egyptians.

Honestly, I don't want to skew the thread, but...If there IS a parallel between Horus/Osiris/Jesus, then why can't Moses have a parallel of Akhenaten or an Akhenaten priest or something?

I suppose something like that is possible, but I'm not aware of any arguments for it.

andrewcriddle · 05-29-2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Thank you for your patience and persistence in this matter, Dave31. I am not familiar with Egyptology, and most of us here in this forum are not, so it is perhaps best to be explicit with your meaning, not academically obscure. Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts edited by R. O. Faulkner is published online, so I was able to look up page 138 for the quote in question, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you for four days." The translation of Faulkner has it, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days." Here is the context:

A boon which Anubis, Foremost of the Westerners, grants! Your thousand of bread, your thousand of beer, your thousand of ointment, your thousand of alabaster, your thousand of clothing, your thousand of cattle! The goose is decapitated for you, the trp-bird is slaughtered for you, Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days, Seth has annulled what he did against you in your eight days.

Do you happen to know what "in your eight days" refers to? Thanks.

There are three references in the Pyramid Texts that seem relevant:

PT 419 (referred to above)

Quote:

Horus has exterminated the evil which was in N. in his four day (term);
Set has annulled that which he did against N. in his eight day (term).

PT 535

Quote:

Thy putrefaction, N., is not; thy sweat, N., is not;
thy outflowing, N., is not; thy dust, N., is not.
Ḥȝ.ti son of Ḥȝ.ti (is) at Mnii, coming as Mn.ti,
to divide in three these your four days and your eight nights

(The last lines are obscure; possibly translate after James P Allen you of the Screecher, the Screecher's son, you of the mooring who came from the Mooring Post; you of the separation into three - in these your four days and your eight nights)

PT 670

Quote:

Osiris speaks to Horus:
After he had exterminated the evil [which was in N. on] his fourth day,
after he had annulled that which he did against him on his eighth [day].
[Thou hast come forth] from the lake of life; [thou art] purified [in the lake of] ḳbḥ.w,{cool water ?}
and art become Wepwawet; and thy son Horus conducts thee,
when he has given to thee the gods, thine enemies, and Thot has brought them to thee.

What all these seem to have in common is that they inform the dead king, (who has become identified with Osiris), that the rituals to bring the king prosperity in the next life have been successfully completed.

Some scholars believe that four days and eight days/nights refer in this context to critical periods in the purification and preparation of the body of the dead king.

Andrew Criddle

ApostateAbe · 05-29-2010, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Thank you for your patience and persistence in this matter, Dave31. I am not familiar with Egyptology, and most of us here in this forum are not, so it is perhaps best to be explicit with your meaning, not academically obscure. Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts edited by R. O. Faulkner is published online, so I was able to look up page 138 for the quote in question, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you for four days." The translation of Faulkner has it, "Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days." Here is the context:

A boon which Anubis, Foremost of the Westerners, grants! Your thousand of bread, your thousand of beer, your thousand of ointment, your thousand of alabaster, your thousand of clothing, your thousand of cattle! The goose is decapitated for you, the trp-bird is slaughtered for you, Horus has dispelled the evil which was on you in your four days, Seth has annulled what he did against you in your eight days.

Do you happen to know what "in your eight days" refers to? Thanks.

There are three references in the Pyramid Texts that seem relevant:

PT 419 (referred to above)
PT 535 (The last lines are obscure; possibly translate after James P Allen you of the Screecher, the Screecher's son, you of the mooring who came from the Mooring Post; you of the separation into three - in these your four days and your eight nights)

PT 670

Quote:

Osiris speaks to Horus:
After he had exterminated the evil [which was in N. on] his fourth day,
after he had annulled that which he did against him on his eighth [day].
[Thou hast come forth] from the lake of life; [thou art] purified [in the lake of] ḳbḥ.w,{cool water ?}
and art become Wepwawet; and thy son Horus conducts thee,
when he has given to thee the gods, thine enemies, and Thot has brought them to thee.

What all these seem to have in common is that they inform the dead king, (who has become identified with Osiris), that the rituals to bring the king prosperity in the next life have been successfully completed.

Some scholars believe that four days and eight days/nights refer in this context to critical periods in the purification and preparation of the body of the dead king.

Andrew Criddle

Thank you, Andrew Criddle.

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