Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 12-06-2007, 08:15 AM

Consider the following Scriptures:

Item 1

Matthew 27:5-7 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Item 2

Mark 15:6-7 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

Item 3

John 20:19-20 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Item 4

Luke 24:33-34 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

Item 5

Matthew 28:16-17 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Is there any way to harmonize all of those items? Items 3 and 4 take place in Jerusalem. Item 5 takes place in Galilee. Item 5 shows that some doubted. Items 3 and 4 do not mention any doubting. As is true in many other cases in the New Testament, the writer of the book of John does not have nearly the same story to tell as the other Gospel writers tell.

Sharkee · 12-06-2007, 08:18 PM

No they cannot, and there is no point trying to do so.

Solitary Man · 12-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Where there's a will, there's a way...

Minimalist · 12-06-2007, 10:22 PM

Bart Ehrman says you can cram them all together and get the gospel of Marklukematthewjohn.

They make as much sense that way as they do separately.

Solitary Man · 12-06-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist

They make as much sense that way as they do separately.

Separately, individually, they each make sense on their own accord. Tatian and others have harmonized them. It's not an impossible feat. Whether it does so to our satisfaction can be debated (I'm of the opinion that no, they cannot be be harmonized to my satisfaction, that there are too much discrepancy).

JoeWallack · 12-07-2007, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Is there any way to harmonize all of those items? Items 3 and 4 take place in Jerusalem. Item 5 takes place in Galilee. Item 5 shows that some doubted. Items 3 and 4 do not mention any doubting. As is true in many other cases in the New Testament, the writer of the book of John does not have nearly the same story to tell as the other Gospel writers tell.

JW:
The best explanation I've seen is that there were Four different Jesuses. You need to correct your "Mark" reference.

Joseph

DCHindley · 12-07-2007, 09:13 AM

See if here is a web site maintained by The Way. Those folks are super literalists, and manage to get six denials of Jesus by Peter by comparing the four gospel accounts.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following Scriptures:

Item 1 Matthew 27:5-7
Item 2 Mark 15:6-7
Item 3 John 20:19-20
Item 4 Luke 24:33-34
Item 5 Matthew 28:16-17

Is there any way to harmonize all of those items? Items 3 and 4 take place in Jerusalem. Item 5 takes place in Galilee. Item 5 shows that some doubted. Items 3 and 4 do not mention any doubting. As is true in many other cases in the New Testament, the writer of the book of John does not have nearly the same story to tell as the other Gospel writers tell.

dettus · 12-07-2007, 09:42 AM

personalization and candor of the scriptures...

is what I've heard

Doug Shaver · 12-07-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Is there any way to harmonize all of those items?

Yes. Inerrantists have done so on several occasions.

If you mean "credibly harmonize," that's another question.

Johnny Skeptic · 12-07-2007, 06:24 PM

One thing that I find to be quite odd is that one Gospel says that the women at the tomb forgot that Jesus told them that he would rise from the dead until the angel reminded them of it. How could anyone have fogotten a claim like that if Jesus had already raised Lazarus from the dead?

12-06-2007, 08:15 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Can these Scriptures be harmonized? Consider the following Scriptures: Item 1 Matthew 27:5-7 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. Item 2 Mark 15:6-7 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. Item 3 John 20:19-20 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Item 4 Luke 24:33-34 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. Item 5 Matthew 28:16-17 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Is there any way to harmonize all of those items? Items 3 and 4 take place in Jerusalem. Item 5 takes place in Galilee. Item 5 shows that some doubted. Items 3 and 4 do not mention any doubting. As is true in many other cases in the New Testament, the writer of the book of John does not have nearly the same story to tell as the other Gospel writers tell.

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12-06-2007, 08:18 PM	#2
Sharkee Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 24	No they cannot, and there is no point trying to do so.

12-06-2007, 08:42 PM	#3
Solitary Man Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ירושלים Posts: 1,701	Where there's a will, there's a way...

12-06-2007, 10:22 PM	#4
Minimalist Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,808	Bart Ehrman says you can cram them all together and get the gospel of Marklukematthewjohn. They make as much sense that way as they do separately.

12-07-2007, 09:42 AM	#8
dettus Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: where apologists for religion are deservedly derid Posts: 6,298	personalization and candor of the scriptures... is what I've heard

12-07-2007, 06:24 PM	#10
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	One thing that I find to be quite odd is that one Gospel says that the women at the tomb forgot that Jesus told them that he would rise from the dead until the angel reminded them of it. How could anyone have fogotten a claim like that if Jesus had already raised Lazarus from the dead?

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