JPD

Copernicus' heliocentric system as opposed to Ptolemy's geocentric system. Trouble is, it has been demonstrated - we have observed - that the heliocentric system is the correct one. How does one go about establishing a six or seven day creation?

Oolon Colluphid

Who cares? Why should the Hebrew creation story be any more likely to be right than the Aztec one? Don't tell me you're going to shoehorn science into a deformed, mangled version of the texts... are you?

Oolon Colluphid

Bingo!

Well that was easy, I'm off to cross the road on that zebra cr.....

SoonersRock20

You know what? More power to ya Gnostradamus (great name BTW). If you want to read the Bible in such a way that it is not at odds with evolution then I think that's great! In fact if you want to start a theological think tank or foundation to spread that concept through Christianity then I will make the first donation to it.

Cheers and good luck to you.

Oolon Colluphid

I couldn't agree more.

Gnostradamus, perhaps you'd have more luck with your ideas on a Christian forum though. Not that you are unwelcome to share them here, but you see, most of us are atheists and agnostics. So our position is more basic than having a problem reconciling the bible to science -- we don't regard Genesis as credible at all: to us, it's myth. Here in E/C in particular though, provided one is not at odds with scientific findings, one may go about one's theism unmolested .

Gnostradamus

One must first come to an understanding of what is signified by day. Why seven days?

Yes, this is good. Shamash, Sin, Nergal, Nebo, Marduk, Ishtar, and Ninurta.

The seven Babylonian gods. But why did the Babylonian's have seven gods. ...

Because each god was actually a visible planet, which in astrology, includes the Sun and Moon.

Shamash, Sin, Nergal, Nebo, Marduk, Ishtar, and Ninurta.
Or as we know them: the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn.
Or Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

So Day One, creation of light. The Sun.
Day Two, separation of waters. The Moon. Which rules the crab near relative to the trillobite.
Day Three, Creation of dry land and plants. Mars, which rules plants, symbolised by Aries, and insects, symbolised by Scorpio.
Day Four, Creation of seasons, clarity, recognition of Sun and Moon and heavens. Mercury.
Day Five, Creation of birds and fish. Jupiter, which rules birds, symbolised by Sagitarius, and fish, symbolised by Pisces.
Day Six, Creation of mammals, man and woman. Venus, which rules mammals, symbolised by Taurus, and man and woman, symbolised by Libra, the scales.
Day Seven, Day of rest. Saturn, which rules old men, symbolised by Aquarius, and old women, symbolised by Capricorn.

Duck!

Maybe because the people who wrote/invented the myths were a pre-scientific culture who had no clue as to the real creation that led to mankind and which took billions of years - big bang, galactic formation, solar system formation, planet formation, abiogenesis, evolution leading up to modern humans, etc. - and as a result didn't mention those things and constructed a totally off-the-wall account that at the time wasn't testable and easily believable by the superstitious and religious population?

That's my guess, anyway.


Duck!

Jedi Mind Trick

Gnostradamus asked:
One possible source is the Enuma Elish Epic.
All seven days and in similar order. Different god(s) though... :wave:

JPD

Well we don't believe for one second that the universe was created in seven days.


Well that's smashing but where is your evidence that the universe was created in seven days?

Dean Anderson

The ordering of the "days" was intended to follows a symbolic/poetic form, rather than intended to follow a chronological one.

It starts with the "outer" sphere of existence, with day "1" showing the formation of the "celestial sphere" which includes the formation of night and day. Then day "2" moves in closer, with the formation of the sky under the celestial sphere - and the "firmament" that forms its upper boundary - along with the waters beneath the "Pillars of the Earth". Then day "3" moves in closer still with the formation of the "inner" sphere - i.e. the Earth.

It then repeats the process, with the formation of the inhabitants of each sphere. Day "4" shows the formation of the "inhabitants" of the celestial sphere (the sun and moon), day "5" shows the formation of the inhabitants of the sky and waters, and finally day "6" shows the formation of the inhabitants of the land.

This ordered creation poem shows us a great deal about the worldview of the people who wrote it.

For example, they considered the sun and moon to be "inhabitants" of the celestial sphere, who move across it. Day and night are considered intrinsic to the sphere itself, but the sun merely moves around during the day - rather than actually causing the daylight. Given that it gets light before sunrise and gets dark after sunset it is easy to see why the sun would not be considered so important in the process.

Similarly, it is notable that to the writers, plants were not considered to be the "inhabitants" of the Earth, merely part of the scenery - so they are created with the Earthly Sphere rather than with its inhabitants.

This diagram shows the world structure that they were talking about, with the sun and moon travelling along the underneath of the firmament and waters beneath the pillars of the Earth:


(from the New American Bible, St. Joseph edition)