Freethought & Rationalism Archive

andrewcriddle · 04-13-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

The text is supposed to be written by Tacitus. Does the interpolator have to say, "this is a piece of christian propaganda and I'm unable to disguise the fact that I can't make it look at all like it was written by a pagan?"

spin

Referring to the 'obstinacy' of the victims would be perfectly plausible in a Pagan. Marcus Aurelius in his meditations (XI iii) does so.

Quote:

but so that this readiness comes from a man's own judgement, not from mere obstinacy, as with the Christians, but considerately and with dignity and in a way to persuade another, without tragic show

Andrew Criddle

Toto · 04-13-2005, 04:34 PM

Cliff Carrington (also here.)

spin · 04-13-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Referring to the 'obstinacy' of the victims would be perfectly plausible in a Pagan. Marcus Aurelius in his meditations (XI iii) does so.

Uh, there's a bit more to the tale told in Tacitus than obstinacy. To such an extent that passers-by, pagans, felt sorry for the christians....

spin

rlogan · 04-13-2005, 08:02 PM

Very nice in the extensiveness of the inquiry. A technical quibble - Tacitus does not have the Christians being blamed for the fire, but rather a source of diversion.

So when citing these other authors, one should not remark that they did not blame the Christians. Rather, that there simply was no association at all with the fire.

This does not detract from the evidence, but more sticking to the point of what Tacitus actually said.

John A. Broussard · 04-13-2005, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlogan

Very nice in the extensiveness of the inquiry. A technical quibble - Tacitus does not have the Christians being blamed for the fire, but rather a source of diversion.

I'm not quite sure what he means by a "source of diversion" as distinct from being blamed.

In any event, we do know that slaves were often handy scapegoats. Undoubtedly, many Christians were slaves, so perhaps whatever reprisals occurred may have been directed toward slaves--who just incidentally happened to be Christians.

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04-13-2005, 04:34 PM	#12
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Cliff Carrington (also here.)

04-13-2005, 08:02 PM	#14
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	Very nice in the extensiveness of the inquiry. A technical quibble - Tacitus does not have the Christians being blamed for the fire, but rather a source of diversion. So when citing these other authors, one should not remark that they did not blame the Christians. Rather, that there simply was no association at all with the fire. This does not detract from the evidence, but more sticking to the point of what Tacitus actually said.

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