Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 03-05-2008, 04:46 AM

THE WITNESSES TO THE
HISTORICITY OF JESUS
BY
ARTHUR DREWS, Ph.D.

PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY IN THE TECHN. HOCH8CHULE, KARLSRUHE
(author of "The Christ-Myth," etc.)
TRANSLATED BY JOSEPH McCABE

1912

I have recently read this book (300 odd pages) from a 26mb pdf file that I cannot immediately locate. All the arguments presented in this forum by the routine "infidels" about the Jewish and Roman witnesses are covered by Drews. He has a large section on Paul, and affirms there is reason to believe that there was in fact no historical Jesus.

Here are some interesting quotes:

Quote:

p.65

"Historical theology has hitherto endeavoured to interpret tradition in the sense of its historical Jesus,and has lost its way in a labyrinth of difficulties, contradictions, and insoluble problems. We raise the question whether the documents may not be better and more simply interpreted in the opposite sense, and whether there is any need at all to interpret the tradition historically. On which side the truth is found cannot be determined by the starting point of the inquiry, but only by showing which interpretation best squares with the facts and which can be most easily established.

In any case our method cannot be pronounced wrong because, starting from a different assumption, we reach conclusions other than the theologian; not may one charge us with "confusion"or appeal against us in the name of "sound" investigation and science when our enquiry into the New Testament documents leads us to deny the historicity of Jesus, as long as it is not proved that our assumption is absurd.

and

Quote:

4. THE " UNIQUENESS " AND " UNINVENTIBILITY "
OF THE GOSPEL PORTRAIT OF JESUS.

In the absence of any objective criterion it is necessary for the theologian to rely upon subjective feeling and seek in this the irrefragable proof of the historicity of the gospel Jesus. Here we have especially to meet the emphatic claim that the portrait of Jesus is "unique" and "could not have been invented."

Can anyone point at the free PDF?
Does the IIDB library stock this book?
If it does not, it should.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

mountainman · 03-05-2008, 06:27 AM

Another relevant article is this:

The Denial of the Historicity of Jesus in Past and Present

Quote:

Arthur Drews (1865-1935)

Karlsruhe, 1926

This is Klaus Schilling's summary in English of Arthur Drews' article "Die Leugnung der Geschichtlichkeit Jesu in Vergangenheit und Gegenwart", on the history of the denial of the historicity of Jesus, at http://www.radikalkritik.de/leugnung.htm at Radikal Kritik. Edited, formatted, and uploaded with Schilling's permission by Michael Hoffman.

Toto · 03-05-2008, 12:21 PM

You can download the pdf (or several other formats) from this site

mountainman · 03-05-2008, 05:12 PM

Thanks for the link. Here is the authors preface:

Quote:

PREFACE

THE present work is an abbreviated and amended version, for
English readers, of the volume which the author recently
published as the second part of The Christ-Myth (English
translation, 1910, Fisher Unwin). The author described this
part as ' an answer to his opponents, with special reference
to theological methods," and dealt in the early part of it with
the theological critics who had assailed the results and the
methods adopted by him. It will be seen that the fault of
method is entirely on the side of the opponents, and that theo-
logians can maintain the historical reality of Jesus on methodical
arguments only when their methods are pre-arranged to lead
to that result. It is not the author's intention wholly to omit
the points of this controversy, as in this respect there is no
difference between the theologians of Germany and those of
other countries. The chief aim of the work, however, is
to collect, examine, and refute the arguments which are
advanced on the theological side for the historicity of Jesus.
In spite of their arrogant behaviour, the German theologians
have not been able to produce one single decisive reason for
the historicity of Jesus. It remains to be seen whether the
English authorities can adduce better proof of the validity of
the Christian belief than their German colleagues have done.
Besides doing this necessary critical work, it is hoped that the
book may also provide a better explanation of the rise of the
Christian religion than historical theology, as it is called, has
yet afforded. In this respect the author is indebted to the very
stimulating and informing works of Mr. J. M. Robertson
(Christianity and Mythology, Pagan Christs, and A Short History
of Christianity), and to the American writer Professor W. B.
Smith, whose works, Der vorchristliche Jesus and Ecce Deus,
ought to be in the hands of every student of the Christian
religion.

The question of the historicity of Jesus is a purely historical
question, and, as such, it must be settled with the resources of
historical research. This procedure is, however, in view of the
close connection of the subject with emotional and religious
elements, not inconsistent with the fact that the final decision
belongs to an entirely different province, that of philosophy,
which also controls subjective feeling. In this sense, the
question whether Jesus was an historical personage coincides
with the question of the significance of personality in the
general order of the world, and of the roots and motives of the
inner religious life generally.

The controversy in regard to the Christ-myth is at the
same time a struggle for the freedom and independence of the
modern mind, and of science and philosophy. Let there be
no mistake about it : as long as the belief in an historical
Jesus survives we shall not succeed in throwing off the yoke
of an alleged historical fact which is supposed to have taken
place two thousand years ago, yet has profoundly affected the
science and philosophy of Europe. What a situation it is
when the deepest thoughts of the modern mind must be
measured by the teaching of Jesus, and referred to a world
of ideas that has nothing to recommend it but the antiquity
of its traditions and the artificially engendered appreciation of
everything connected with it !

At the same time the Christ-myth controversy is a struggle
over religion. Religion is a life that emanates from the
depths of one's innermost self, an outgrowth of the mind and
of freedom. All religious progress consists in making faith
more intimate, in transferring the centre of gravity from the
objective to the subjective world, by a confident surrender to
the God within us. The belief in an historical instrument of
salvation is a purely external appreciation of objective facts.
To seek to base the religious life on it is not to regard the
essence of religion, but to make it for ever dependent on a
stage of mental development that has long been passed in the
inner life. Those who cling to an historical Jesus on religious
grounds merely show that they have never understood the
real nature of religion, or what " faith " really means in the
religious sense of the word. They see only the interest of
their Church, which assuredly profits by a confusion of true
religious faith, of a trustful surrender to the God within us
with the intellectual acceptance of certain facts of either a
dogmatic or an historical character ; they only deceive them-
selves and others when they imagine that they are promoting
the interest of religion.

Our science has not hitherto suffered the indignity of being
placed after theology in the hierarchy of culture, and so
being compelled to justify its deepest thoughts and achieve-
ments from the theological point of view, or concern itself
about theology at all. Our philosophy, however, allows faith
to be set above knowledge, in spite of the fact that faith is born
of the thirst for knowledge and consists in a view of the world ;
in this way theology comes to exercise control over the whole
province of philosophical knowledge. A philosophy that thus
comes to terms with theology, a " perfectly safe philosophy "
which seeks to live in peace with theology, is unworthy of the
name. For it is not the work of philosophy merely to prepare
academic theses, and deal with things that have no interest for
any person outside the lecture-hall and the study : its greatest
cultural task is to defend the rights of reason, to extend its
sway over every province of knowledge, and to rationalise
faith. In the words of Hegel, its task is "to disturb as much
as possible the ant-like zeal of the theologians who use critical
methods for the strengthening of their Gothic temple, to make
their work as difficult as possible, to drive them out of every
refuge, until none remains and they must show themselves
openly in the light of day." It is from no accident, but in the
very nature of things, that a philosopher thus came to
denounce the truce which has so long and so artificially
been maintained with theology, and sought to show the
untenability of its central belief in an historical Jesus.

Meantime we may reflect with comfort on the words
of Dupuis : " There are large numbers of men so perversely
minded that they will believe everything except what is
recommended by sound intelligence and reason, and shrink
from philosophy as the hydrophobic shrinks from water.
These people will not read us, and do not concern us ; we
have not written for them. Their mind is the prey of the
priests, just as their body will be the prey of the worms. We
have written only for the friends of humanity and reason.
The rest belong to another world ; even their God tells them
that his kingdom is not of this world that is to say, not of
the world in which people use their judgment and that the
simple are blessed because theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Let us, therefore, leave to them their opinions, and not envy
the priests such a possession. Let us pursue our way, without
lingering to count the number of the credulous. When we
have unveiled the sanctuary in which the priest shuts himself,
we can hardly expect that he will press his followers to read
us. We will be content with a happy revolution, and we will
see that, for the honour of reason, it is so complete as to
prevent the clergy from doing any further harm to mankind."

ARTHUR DREWS.

mountainman · 03-12-2008, 03:44 AM

Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus: Arthur Drews (1912)

I have made a web page out of the source document. It is not very well formatted but will have to do for the moment. When I went to the library author index for D (pre-1970 authors):

Darrow, Clarence
Darwin, Charles
Dreiser, Theodore

Drews, Arthur is not on it. Who is the Infidel Librarian?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Toto · 03-12-2008, 10:24 AM

Arthur_Drews was a 20th century German theologian, not a part of the freethought movement, although several prominent freethinkers appreciated some of his books on the Christ Myth.

If you want to propose an addition to the II Library, the best method is to post in the Feedback Forum, which will bring the matter to the attention of Don Morgan. But I doubt that II wants to add much to the historical section of the library, especially if the works are available elsewhere on the web.

-DM- · 03-12-2008, 08:13 PM

mountainman did post a link to this book online in the Secular Web Feedback Forum (thanks).

We would not likely be interested in adding this book online in the Historical Documents section of the Secular Web Library inasmuch as it is available online elsewhere, and inasmuch as it would take a lot of work to HTMLize it for the Library. On the other hand, assuming that it is in the public domain, if someone were to volunteer to HTMLize it for us then that would be a different story.

Note, however, that the book itself in print form is available from Amazon. I will add it to my list of books to be considered for addition to the Secular Web Bookstore

-Don-

-DM- · 05-08-2008, 08:44 AM

Note: The following two books by Arthur Drews have been added to the Secular Web Bookstore:
The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus
The Christ Myth

03-12-2008, 03:44 AM	#5
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Did Jesus exist? Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus: Arthur Drews (1912) I have made a web page out of the source document. It is not very well formatted but will have to do for the moment. When I went to the library author index for D (pre-1970 authors): Darrow, Clarence Darwin, Charles Dreiser, Theodore Drews, Arthur is not on it. Who is the Infidel Librarian? Best wishes, Pete Brown

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03-05-2008, 12:21 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	You can download the pdf (or several other formats) from this site

03-12-2008, 10:24 AM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Arthur_Drews was a 20th century German theologian, not a part of the freethought movement, although several prominent freethinkers appreciated some of his books on the Christ Myth. If you want to propose an addition to the II Library, the best method is to post in the Feedback Forum, which will bring the matter to the attention of Don Morgan. But I doubt that II wants to add much to the historical section of the library, especially if the works are available elsewhere on the web.

03-12-2008, 08:13 PM	#7
-DM- Honorary Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: West Coast Posts: 5,714	mountainman did post a link to this book online in the Secular Web Feedback Forum (thanks). We would not likely be interested in adding this book online in the Historical Documents section of the Secular Web Library inasmuch as it is available online elsewhere, and inasmuch as it would take a lot of work to HTMLize it for the Library. On the other hand, assuming that it is in the public domain, if someone were to volunteer to HTMLize it for us then that would be a different story. Note, however, that the book itself in print form is available from Amazon. I will add it to my list of books to be considered for addition to the Secular Web Bookstore -Don-

05-08-2008, 08:44 AM	#8
-DM- Honorary Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: West Coast Posts: 5,714	Note: The following two books by Arthur Drews have been added to the Secular Web Bookstore: The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus The Christ Myth

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