Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cloggy · 11-01-2004, 04:06 PM

It's all a big copingmechanism with disasterous consequences.

muidiri · 11-02-2004, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloggy

It's all a big copingmechanism with disasterous consequences.

Amen.

Dave Roberts · 11-09-2004, 03:46 PM

NOTHING- Not A Thing
As the Jews and Christians both believe that God/Jesus can't die.
So if there was a MAN named Jesus, he may be dead, but Jesus, God incarnate can't die, nor can he be dead. It sort of takes all of the value of his sacrifice away when one looks at it in those terms.

thebeave · 11-09-2004, 04:18 PM

I never did "get it" either. I cannot see a cause and effect relationship between some hippy Jewish carpenter getting nailed on a cross 2000 years ago, and its effect on my "sins" (whatever the hell they are) here in America in 2004. It makes as much sense as saying, "Jesus baked brownies for your sins" or "Jesus stepped in dog poo for your sins".

Mageth · 11-09-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebeave

It makes as much sense as saying, "Jesus baked brownies for your sins" or "Jesus stepped in dog poo for your sins".

But who would want to hang dog poo on a chain around their necks?

A cross is so much more marketable.

And can you imagine the songs Christians would have to sing?

On a hill far away stood a pile of dog shit,
The emblem of suffering and shame;
And I love that old shit where the dearest and best
For a world of lost sinners did step.

So I'll cherish the old stinky shit,
Till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old stinky shit,
And exchange it some day for a crown.

HerrAxel · 11-09-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahweh

And if the subtle tounge-in-cheek of that doesnt stick out immediately, maybe a good thread exposing the absurdity and possibly the humor behind a favorite verse in the bible, John 3:16, will do.

Loki · 11-09-2004, 09:26 PM

There's a few different explanations floating around mainstream Christianity. Jesus's death ransomed humanity from Satan, Jesus provides a route to atonement with God, or that it was a perfect act of some sort, and that it showed love.

*shrug* I still don't really understand, but that might be partly because of my inability to see "sin" as so grevious a concept. I acknowledge that people do bad things, but I think we try to act rightly for the most part, and that's all we can really expect.

seebs · 11-09-2004, 10:43 PM

I have no idea what the connection is. I think a lot of it may be simple communication.

My wife explained it thus:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chartreuse

God: You know the world? The one you keep using for toilet paper? I made that.
Man: ...oh.
God: Yeah. And those other humans, the ones you keep kicking when they're down? I made those.
Man: Oh. Um.
God: Uh-huh. And that self, the one you puff up and misrepresent and secretly hate? I made that too, and I really like it.
Man: I'm screwed. I suck. *sits down and cries*
God: No, I like you. I'm just saying. You keep wrecking my stuff.
Man: Um... I'm a pay for that.
God: You can't afford it.
Man: Can't you just take my sheep?
God: Fraid not.
Man: *cries harder*
God: But look, don't cry, little guy. I still like you.
Man: *wails*
God: Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna write you a blank check, and then you can pay me back with it. Here, look, there's my signature and everything.
Man: *stops crying* Oo! Shiny!
God: There, take it. Write in whatever. Write in 'the whole world'.
Man: *uses blank check for toilet paper*
God: Um... yeah. Okay. Now look, I'm ripping it up. Never gonna cash this check. See? I really do still like you.
Man: Wow, God, you're the greatest! *skips away singing, to use the world for toilet paper some more*

seal_clubber · 11-10-2004, 12:24 PM

When I was a kid I had an Episcopalian minister explain it with a story - mankind is before the judge. The judge declares him guilty, and the sentence is death. Then the judge throws off his robe, comes around to the front of the bench (presto! jebus!), and says he will take the punishment on behalf of man.
I told him I didn't get it - in an actual court, the judge just applies the law from a higher authority.In real (fake) life, god makes the rules himself, so why not just blow off the whole judgment/punishment thing?

TomboyMom · 11-10-2004, 12:41 PM

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine.
Wish I had some kind of musical smilie to put in here.

Rene

11-10-2004, 12:41 PM	#20
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	Gotta quote Patti Smith here Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine. Wish I had some kind of musical smilie to put in here. Rene

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11-01-2004, 04:06 PM	#11
cloggy Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Holland Posts: 487	It's all a big copingmechanism with disasterous consequences.

11-09-2004, 03:46 PM	#13
Dave Roberts Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,440	NOTHING- Not A Thing As the Jews and Christians both believe that God/Jesus can't die. So if there was a MAN named Jesus, he may be dead, but Jesus, God incarnate can't die, nor can he be dead. It sort of takes all of the value of his sacrifice away when one looks at it in those terms.

11-09-2004, 04:18 PM	#14
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	I never did "get it" either. I cannot see a cause and effect relationship between some hippy Jewish carpenter getting nailed on a cross 2000 years ago, and its effect on my "sins" (whatever the hell they are) here in America in 2004. It makes as much sense as saying, "Jesus baked brownies for your sins" or "Jesus stepped in dog poo for your sins".

11-09-2004, 09:26 PM	#17
Loki Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Land of hippies and fog Posts: 2,075	There's a few different explanations floating around mainstream Christianity. Jesus's death ransomed humanity from Satan, Jesus provides a route to atonement with God, or that it was a perfect act of some sort, and that it showed love. shrug I still don't really understand, but that might be partly because of my inability to see "sin" as so grevious a concept. I acknowledge that people do bad things, but I think we try to act rightly for the most part, and that's all we can really expect.

11-10-2004, 12:24 PM	#19
seal_clubber Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 192	When I was a kid I had an Episcopalian minister explain it with a story - mankind is before the judge. The judge declares him guilty, and the sentence is death. Then the judge throws off his robe, comes around to the front of the bench (presto! jebus!), and says he will take the punishment on behalf of man. I told him I didn't get it - in an actual court, the judge just applies the law from a higher authority.In real (fake) life, god makes the rules himself, so why not just blow off the whole judgment/punishment thing?

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