Steven Carr

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness

How do you 'create' darkness?

Many Christians , like CS Lewis, say darkness is not something which is created. It is just the absence of light.

I quote 'Again the student answered, 'Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is only the absence of light. Darkness is a term we use to describe what happens when there is no light. '

If Christians think darkness does not exist, how did Isaiah think darkness was a thing which could be created?

Amos

The key towards understanding this passage is contained in the two words "form" and 'create." To create is to perplex and to form is when we arrive at a conclusion out of perplexity.

Darkness is created every day and therefore evening follows the day. (In Gen. 1 it is not until creation stopped that darkness did not return and therefore evening did not follow the day on the seventh day). This, in its turn, is why there is no marriage in heaven where all is clear and without impediments so that love can be love which alters not when it alteration finds (love is passive and without the opposites of rational inquiry; rational inquiry is towards understanding and in understanding is found the essence of existence=the insight that brings illumination).

The created must gain assent in the conclusion before it can bring illumination and therefore light is formed, or emerges, in the final existence of the created and hence the seventh day appears in Gen. 2 where the created is called into existence. So Gen.2 is where that which caused darkness in Gen.1 to come into light through its existence in the lower rational world when we see things in their own existence (the idea that woman is "taken from man" rather than created shows this understanding ). This kind of means that while in darkness we color (create) our own heaven when we tie what is tied on earth and loose what is loosed on earth to become that which is retained in heaven --as if we were flowers that must be burried in darkness before they can bud and bloom.

The point here is that essence must precede existence and the data collected while searching for understanding is what creates darkness=is faith seeking understanding while knowlege frees= faith leads to darkness and understanding to liberation from faith= all doubt must be removed prior to ascention.

When darkness can be the absense of light we are obviously not living in the seventh day of creation where the night is no more (Rev.22:5) and the light of common day must be our light. "Woe" is the result of darkness and "well-being" is darkness come to light.

As a student I would say that light does not exist because without me, light could no longer be in the same way that sound could no longer be, for me, without me.

Yahzi

You create darkness by withholding light. So when God says he creates darkness, he means he lets his light shine where he wants it to, and does not let it shine where he does not want it to.

A similar theme is found when he sends spirits to decieve, puts lies in the mouths of prophets, etc.

In other words God's knowledge is secret and only given to some. Like the priest, for instance, who can then share it with you - for a price, of course.

Anyway I don't see any inherent contradictions in this passage, just proof that God is unfair.

judge

It's just a turn of phrase. One could just as easily say ."I turn out the light"

GakuseiDon

I don't think Steve is interested in any real discussion on this. I suggest he is 'fishing' for comments.

From experience, I know that sometimes, when Steve is debating Christians on other threads or forums, he 'goes fishing' for comments from other Christians that counterpoints his opponent's argument.

He sets up a thread quoting from that argument, posing it as some kind of problem for the Christian (e.g. the thread Steve set up on Holding's "no-one claimed to be the Messiah" webpage on TheologyWeb, or the thread Steve set up on "no-one died for a lie"), and waits for Christians to disagree.

There isn't anything necessarily wrong with that (i.e. asking Christians if they disagree with another Christian), as long as it is said upfront.

Steve, is that the case here?

Steven Carr

I am certainly interested in comments. Hence my posting on a discussion forum.

For example, how can God create something that many Christians say does not exist? Comments are welcome.

diana

Hi, Steven,

I think the "many Christians say" thing is your sticking point. Those Christians only claim "darkness doesn't exist," in the urban myth you've quoted, when it suits their purpose to make such a claim. So you've rooted out a fun way to bring that silly story to a screeching halt, and I thank you for it.

However, claiming "darkness doesn't exist because it is only the absence of light" is a play on semantics, if anything. I guess it all hinges on how you define "existence," then, doesn't it? From Merriam-Webster Online:

It sounds to me as though those who claim "darkness doesn't exist" are depending upon the obsolete definition. All the rest support the idea that darkness does, indeed, exist.

The very fact that we talk about it and understand what we mean when we say "darkness is the absence of light" means it does, in fact, exist. How can you say darkness "is" anything without the implicit assumption that this thing that you're talking about both exists and can be described?

Right. So what we're talking about here are labels for concepts, and how we describe those concepts. We have heat and cold (which is the absence of heat). We have white, which is the combination of all colors (light waves) and black, which is the absence of color.

But I guess we all know what we mean when someone claims that black is her favorite color, now don't we?

So...these Christians who claim cold doesn't exist.... I suppose, if left outside in Minnesota overnight without a wrap this time of year, would probably die of "lack of heat." Or would they, perchance, note that they are cold? But how could they? "Cold" doesn't exist, right?

Silly.

d