Doctor X

geekfish-san:

Welcome to the forums . . . do not mind the hounds. . . .

I had thought "Babylon" was a symbol for Rome, but with Revelation who really knows?

Kattaz:

1. Tulip Merchants of Holland
2. Everyone after the Crash that Herald'd the Great Depression
3. Athens After the Sacking
4. Karl Marx Dreaming of the End to Capitalism
5. A Taunt to Rome
6. Investers Left after Ponzi Fled
7. Dot-Com Companies
8. Enron
9. Microsoft
10. Beatrix--We are ALL Beatrix!
11 English Beef Producers
12 American Beef Producers
13 Canadian Beef Producers
14 Chicago Cubs Memorabilia Sellers
15 France
16 Michael Jackson's New Album

Et cetera ad nauseum. . . .

What you practice is eisegesis rather than exegesis.

--J.D.

geekfish-san

Thank you for the welcome, Doc-X. I came here after influence of Karalora, a frequenter.

Babylon, unfortunately, never served the same purpose as Rome, Rome was always the strong Government, where Babylon was the strong Religion. the two of them coinside. at least, in biblical logic, that is.

Doctor X

It is probably too damn late for me to look it up--Revelation on lack of sleep . . . excellent--however, I had thought that the references to Babylon were an allusion to what will/should happen to Rome from the writer's perspective. He cannot come out and SAY "Rome Sucks" but he sure as hell can imply it.

It is a bit like comparing Ontario to the Roman Empire now. . . .

--J.D.

nessa20x

quote
For your ask: before this event I haven’t internet acces. I only use internet from 6 months, and I am member of this forum from a week. The next event is the first plague of seven ones, possible antrax or something with similar efects.



Anthrax huh??? Go read something...like a biology book perhaps. Anthrax is definently not going to be the next plague. Anyway the coniditons for plague...while they exist in some areas of the world, do not exist in the US at this time.

You are most certainly wrong, as any other doomsday prophet has been. Anyone can make silly general blamket statements and then interpret them after the fact.

geekfish-san

okay, let's recap the seven seals, seven trumpets and sevel bowls/vials of wrath, shall we? i'll start with the sevel seals, for the revelation is based off a scroll in heaven that is sealed seven times. each seal that is broken is an event in time, which also may or may not include a plague.

1st seal: "antichrist" comes to power -- i don't think i can define this as fulfilled, we aren't worshipping any world leaders currently.
this is symbolized by the white horse and horseman, horseman carrying a bow and given a crown, conquering every nation. [Rev. 6:1-2]

2nd seal: the peace is lifted from the world: a red horse with a great sword, and the people begin to kill each other in the streets. well, yes, if you count gangs, this is happening today, but the chaos is quite balanced by the rich and/or peaceful family life. [Rev. 6:3-4]

3rd seal: inflation for the poor. the prices of daily needs skyrocket. the way john describes it, and with some study of history, the "penny" spoken here is the day's wages of one man, and the measure of wheat and three measures of barley are the bare minimum for one man to eat for his day's need. [Rev.6:5-6]

4th seal: 1/4th of the population dies. represented by Death, sitting on a pale horse, killing with the sword, hunger, death, and the beasts of the earth. apparently, "Hell followed with him," so all the people who die right here go to hell.[Rev.6:7-8]

5th seal: the "saints", which were people who upheld the "truth" and spread the word of God (sic), cry out to god. nothing that can really happen on earth matches up with this. [Rev.6:9-11]

6th seal: earthquake that shakes the entire earth at once, and lasts a quite long time, the sun turns to black "as sackcloth of hair", and the moon turns to blood. everyone will be begging the rocks to fall on them and kill them. [Rev.6:12-17]

okay, there's an intermission here where the 144,000 hebrew priests are annointed and given white robes and become preachers of the gospel. we don't here much about them.

7th seal: a silence in heaven for half an hour. that's what it says. maybe, no wind? no thunder? it's all up to Jebus. this is also what brings on the second part of my death rant, the 7 trumpets.

okay, so here is the thing behind trumpets. the trumpets represent the coming of someone or something great, as they did in ancient times when a king or prince rolled around in his <strike>limo</strike> ride.

1st trumpet: hail mingled with fire and blood- meteor showers are my best reasoning in this one. imagine yourself stuck on an island, <strike>tripped out on patmos shrooms</strike> seeing this angel of god show you the things which are to come, and you see flaming rocks falling from the sky, no bigger than ice cubes. what would you think? [Rev.8:7]

2nd trumpet: 1/3rd of the sea becomes blood, and 1/3rd of sea life dies, and 1/3rd of the ships are destroyed.[Rev.8:8-9]

3rd trumpet: bitter wormwood, baby. it's a "star" that falls from heaven, and poisons the water and causes it to kill some people because the water is so bitter?!?![Rev.8:10-12]

4th trumpet: 1/3rd of the sun is "smitten," 1/3rd of the moon is "smitten," and 1/3rd part of the stars too. it says that the world will be darker, somewhat. all the best scholars agree with me on this (yes, i say this arrogantly, sic) when i put it, the hours of daylight will be shortened, as to say, only 8 hours of sunlight a day. blah, i don't live in canada.[Rev.8:13-14]

5th trumpet: locusts from the pit. apparently, an angel will come from heaven with a key to the bottomless pit, and release locusts that don't eat plant, but rather humans. some say that these "locusts" are apache helicopters, or something along those lines. as for me, i think they might be giant, scorpion tailed flying locusts. that is, if i believed in it.[Rev.9:1-12]

6th trumpet: the release of the 200 million horsemen. it is believed that this is the army of china. 1/3rd of the population of earth dying says otherwise.[Rev.9:13-19]

i want to make a note here. mathematics shows that right now, 56 percent of the population of the world had died (as in, from the 7 seals and 6 trumpets.) lets keep this in mind.

7th trumpet: the little book which shall not be opened until the time of revelation. good god! we won't see it ever!

here we go, on to the last stretch. studies show that this is the end of the first 3.5 years, fourty two months in time. big point i want to point out: unless these things have happened before september 11, 2001 in the span of 3.5 to 4 years, i don't find it likely. oh, who am i kidding. i find it to be bullshit!

back to the story.

here we go. this will be fun, all ye foolish ones. (note, some translations say "bowl" in place of "vial". i read the KJV. deal.)

1st vial: noisome sore. a pestilence of some sort. no, AIDS does not count, AIDS is not noisome nor sore.

2nd vial: all salt water to blood, all living in the sea die. it's a good thing i live up here on the land and all the sea animals ALREADY DIED. maybe its Jebus killing off the atlanteans.

3rd vial: all fresh water to blood.

4th vial: the sun scorches people. hooray for ozone layer holes! and/or sunburns!

5th vial: the "kingdom" is put under darkness, and this causes people to gnaw in pain. ohh dear. what a painful darkness. no, to be serious, the people of the earth, who are already suffering from no fresh or salt water, expensive food, and noisome pestilence, are getting pissed off at running into that wall over and over.

6th vial: here we go... the euphrates dries up... and, here's the catcher to this story...

7th vial: god remembers Babylon and "her wicked deeds." this is fun.

let me recap all that is supposed to happen to "her."

1. all merchantile work will die there.
2. boats stop coming in to port for merchantile (wait, i thought there was no more sailing...)
3: city destroyed with a "millstone thrown into the sea," which i can roughly translate to nuclear flaming hot death.
4. never inhabited again, neither by man nor bird nor animal. i find this hard to parallel to the WTC, THE PIGEONS SHIT ON IT ALL THE TIME!

so, new york hasn't stopped being a commercial center (merchantile), it wasn't bloody destroyed and never inhabited again (the city), and the world trade center is NOT a city. now, here's how it works. the world must endure the 20 previous things to the fall of babylon BEFORE the fall of babylon. and i don't see a one of them happen. although i could attribute the first seal to George W. Bush...

Kattaz

Amaleq13
The words used by the Revelation: „no one buys their cargoes any more” are at present and give the posibility that situation can change in the future.
OK, first of all, there are too many differences between the versions:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...k-timeline.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1537785.stm
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/speci.../timeline.html
„0950 EDT The south tower of the World Trade Center tower collapses.
10:00 One of World Trade Center towers collapses.
10:05 a.m.: The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, plummeting into the streets below. A massive cloud of dust and debris forms and slowly drifts away from the building.
0903 EDT United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into the south tower of the Trade Center causing a devastating explosion. It had left Boston for Los Angeles carrying 65 passengers and crew.
9:12 A plane swooped down and hit the second tower of the World Trade Center about two thirds of the way up the tower, leading to another large explosion, a Reuters reporter watching the scene on TV said.
9:28: Bush cuts short his Florida visit and boards Air Force One. "Terrorism against our nation will not stand," he says.
9:36 President Bush, cutting short a visit to Florida, says "terrorism against our nation will not stand.”
0940 EDT American Airlines Flight 77, carrying 64 people from Washington to Los Angeles, crashes into the Pentagon in Washington. The nerve centre of the US military bursts into flames and a portion of one side of the five-sided structure collapses.
9:45: A third passenger jet, American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 carrying 64 people, crashes on a helicopter landing pad beside the Pentagon, near Washington, D.C. It had left Dulles International Airport outside Washington at 8:21 a.m. for a scheduled flight to Los Angeles.” You may found other diffrences too.
So we have the following possibilities: we accept that we cannot know exactly which was the time of collapse, so that can be more closed to an hour that we actually know; what is more interesting is the fact this diffrences appear after the first impact who wasn’t directly transmited on TV and obviously hardly to verify; this is 8:45 always. Strange, didn’t it? Or we can assume that differences (impossible to appear from calculation of a tape registered event!) are the results of later modifications, and someone wish to hide the real time of collapse. What do you chose?

Kattaz

geekfish-san
The ancient empire of Babilon and the „great Babilon” from Revelation are not the same thing. As there are similitudes, are also many differences. So Babilon of Daniel is not the same one with the Revelation.
If you want a time clue in Revelation, read chapter 14:6-20.
1st vial: 1st trumpet
2nd vial: 2nd trumpet
3rd vial: 3rd trumpet
If you like studing Bible, certanly you gonna like up links.

Amaleq13

I can hear you backpeddling from all the way across the planet!

The "prophecy" clearly describes permanent destruction:

"And one strong messenger did take up a stone as a great millstone, and did cast [it] to the sea, saying, `Thus with violence shall Babylon be cast, the great city, and may not be found any more at all; (Rev 18:12, YLT, emphasis mine)

The USA Today chronology starts with the Reuters report of the attack rather than the actual time of the first plane striking (10 minutes earlier according to the CNN timeline). This chronology also tells us that the last tower fell at 10:29am ET. This is only one minute off the time given by CNN (i.e. 10:28am).

The BBC chronology gives the same start time for the attack as CNN (i.e. 8:45am). It also gives the time for the collapse of the final tower that only differs by one minute.

The Globe and Mail chronology gives the same start and end time for the attack as CNN.

These are the only relevant times needed to reject your assertion that the destruction of the towers took “exactly” one hour. The claim quite clearly lacks any basis in reality.

All the sources agree that the final tower fell at 10:28 or 10:29. There is no reason to "accept" a lack of certainty for this.

I "choose" to conclude you are willing to distort the facts in order to obtain the illusion of "fulfillment". Your "prophecy fulfillment" is no more credible than your subsequent attempts to explain away its lack of support from the actual events.

Mageth

So we have the following possibilities: we accept that we cannot know exactly which was the time of collapse, so that can be more closed to an hour that we actually know; what is more interesting is the fact this diffrences appear after the first impact who wasn’t directly transmited on TV and obviously hardly to verify; this is 8:45 always. Strange, didn’t it? Or we can assume that differences (impossible to appear from calculation of a tape registered event!) are the results of later modifications, and someone wish to hide the real time of collapse. What do you chose?

Huh?

The exact time of both collisions and both collapses are known from many different independent sources to a precision of a very few minutes, at worst. There's been no "hiding" of the real time of the collisions or collapses; first, there couldn't be (there's simply too many independent sources that recorded the event; there was not just one tape of the event); second, why the hell would anyone possibly want to hide the real time?

Kattaz

Hello, I'm back from vacation.
Amaleq 13
Sorry, but you are in confusion. Revelation 18:21 (not 18:12 like you said)
speak about building collapse, not about economic effects. From which I
know, that is obviously a difference, you should made it.
About time differences, exactly that I said: all version give the same time
to begin and end the collapse, but inside this time it's a free game with
dates. In this situation, this chronologies have a strange behavior.
Anyway, when the prophecy was made, there was no clocks, so measurement of
time was made "by eye". Even if we accept the time of collapse was 1 hour
and 45 minutes, we have a time too close to 1 hour for ignore it.

Another point of my conclusion is write by Amaleq13 in that up quote. The
speed of collapse is like " a stone as a great milestone ... cast to the
sea". Each tower was collapsed with the same speed, and that speed was
accurate described in Bible.