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Old 05-30-2007, 04:21 AM   #41
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Which does not bother me, since I think the term "True Christian" is meaningless.
But others don't, of course.
Your point?
Is sharp enough.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:30 AM   #42
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Is sharp enough.
I really wish you'd actually try to engage others in conversation instead of writing these witty-sounding non-answers.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:24 AM   #43
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The proposition was that 'Most people who take the Bible seriously believe you're supposed to read it with a bias.' Evidence for this allegation has not been provided
Gimme a chance, will you? I'm not at my computer 24/7, and I am without Internet access for a substantial amount of the time during which I am at it.

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and it never will be, imv.
Evidence will be forthcoming. But in view of this comment, I'll be expecting you to say, "That is not evidence."
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:45 AM   #44
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Your point?
Is sharp enough.
I don't think the sheep would agree.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:39 PM   #45
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Speaking for myself, Clouseau, I've NEVER had a Christian wave a Bible at me and say: "Please read this objectively and critically, as some of us believe this to be the word of God." They all use variations of: "This is the word of God. Read it and believe it." Of course they are biased.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:16 AM   #46
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Speaking for myself, Clouseau, I've NEVER had a Christian wave a Bible at me and say: "Please read this objectively and critically, as some of us believe this to be the word of God." They all use variations of: "This is the word of God. Read it and believe it."
Can you confirm the truth of this?
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Old 05-31-2007, 01:27 AM   #47
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Speaking for myself, Clouseau, I've NEVER had a Christian wave a Bible at me and say: "Please read this objectively and critically, as some of us believe this to be the word of God." They all use variations of: "This is the word of God. Read it and believe it."
Can you confirm the truth of this?
I really wish you'd actually try to engage others in conversation instead of writing these witty-sounding non-answers.
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Old 05-31-2007, 01:53 AM   #48
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Speaking for myself, Clouseau, I've NEVER had a Christian wave a Bible at me and say: "Please read this objectively and critically, as some of us believe this to be the word of God." They all use variations of: "This is the word of God. Read it and believe it." Of course they are biased.
Experiences vary. In all my adult life, I've never had a Christian even show me a Bible. Depending on definitions, an exception might be some Jehova's Witnesses, but I think that they deny a number of points which I regard as crucial for a Christian.

They don't wave the Bible in university Religious studies, and they sure tell us to read it "objectively and critically". For a current examination (distance learning), the source text is from a book by the President of the Swedish Humanists, in which he attacks religion rather severely. The exam questions are presented neutrally, and the same "objectively and critically" reading is demanded.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:53 AM   #49
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Around my house are various books with this title. Would not a more useful title be "Miscellaneous collection of ancient near eastern, Greek and Roman texts"?

Is not this idea that this clearly edited set of texts have actually got much in common with each other and are in some way special likely to lead to a biased reading of what they are?
I'll just peek in and say I think you're on to something Clive. Maybe I'd break them apart though into 'Ancient Hebrew writings' and 'Early Christian and pre-christian writing'. The common threads are who wrote them and that they were bound together by the peoples that wrote them. And that's about it.
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Old 05-31-2007, 02:12 PM   #50
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Around my house are various books with this title. Would not a more useful title be "Miscellaneous collection of ancient near eastern, Greek and Roman texts"?

Is not this idea that this clearly edited set of texts have actually got much in common with each other and are in some way special likely to lead to a biased reading of what they are?
I'll just peek in and say I think you're on to something Clive. Maybe I'd break them apart though into 'Ancient Hebrew writings' and 'Early Christian and pre-christian writing'. The common threads are who wrote them and that they were bound together by the peoples that wrote them. And that's about it.

Thanks for some sanity in this train wreck of a thread! I wanted to explore what happens if we stop reifying this collection of works written over how long a period of time and creating imaginary connections that are probably not there!

Maybe the editorial and publishing processes used early spin techniques to build a story that was not there originally, and many people now read these stories from the extremely warped perspective of millenia of spin.

I was not expecting anyone to argue - when the word "holy" is used - that there isn't any spin or bias, or economies with the actualite or whatever!
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