ohmi

The authority of the NT rests on its message being consistent with the OT prophets of God , that test it passes, but modern religious dogma of the many does not [just as was prophesied would happen, another point that proves the authority from God ]

The mistake then is to confuse divided religion with the one truth of God [something which should be trivially obvious is that divided religion cannot be one truth , so most religion logically must be false]

Then one can examine exegesis, hermeneutics and theology, the scripture does not allow such processes for the followers of Jesus , but god Himself divests them with His truth [John 16:13] ... so we know where the falsehoods come from in much religion , from ignoring the scripture and relying upon doctrines of men.

ohmi

You are forgetting that teh House of Israel , to whom alone Jesus said that he was sent and sent his disciples, were NEVER Jews, never accepted Judaism, were idol-worshipers , and were scattered worldwide long before the Jews, becoming integrated into gentile nations , losing their identity [again unlike the Jews].

The House of Israel are a much larger part of Israel than the 'Jews' [House of Judah].

ohmi

I dunno why you don't read it sometime and learn about the House of Israel who NEVER were Jews , never accepted Judaism, worshiped idols and mostly still do ... yet to this lost nation, scattered long before the Jews were scattered and deprived of nationhood [unlike the Jews] are the ones whom Jesus said he was sent by God to reach, and sent hsi disciples to reach...

It is the House of Israel who are prophesied to emerge from amongst the gentiles to claim their scriptural birthright and make the Jews jealous of their knowledge of the long-awaited messiah [most Jews are still waiting !]

storytime

Ok, lets examine your reading of the story. You have portrayed two kingdoms divided in Judah and Israel. Jesus is sent to Israel. What did Jesus want from these "lost" people of Israel? And why do you think it had anything to do with non-Jewish/non-Israel people?

Why wasn't Jesus sent to save Romans? And why was Jesus not sent to save Edomites[Esau's people]? Jesus evidently knew who the lost sheep were and instructed his disciples to go only to them.

storytime

The NT is NOT consistent with the OT. And here's why the NT has no authority. The main character, Jesus, as a messiah, mediator, savior, and a man, cannot stand beside God, for God stands alone. You can read it for yourself. No one stands equal to God. Jesus did not have power to forgive sins of men because that power of forgiveness was set in obedience to laws. Also, there was no "faith only" doctrine with the OT god. Both circumcision and observance of law was THE required protocol and forgiveness did not come through intentional acts of offense to the Israelite brethren. Grace was supplied as an excuse for ignorance and untentional sin in the OT, and carried through to the NT story.

However, due to the Old Testament God and his way that did not change, the NT story is an illegitimate construct. Jesus is shown to be a fraud, and his disciples teaching a false doctrine.

ohmi

Simply read the OT , it is not my idea but simply what scripture says about the messiah , the one king over a re-united nation :-

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Jesus came to begin the gathering of Israel into one nation by taking a remnant few of the descendants of each divided House to become the 144,000 saints whom he takes at his return , twelve thousand from each of twelve of the tribes of Israel [Rev 7:3-8] to be a royal priesthood [1Pet 2:9-10] who minister to the many gentiles redeemed later [Rev 7:9-10] who came by the broad way [Matt 7:13-14] to accepting God's law of Love.

The role of Israel is simply as priests in the salvation of the gentiles, as God has said long ago to their forefathers :-

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jesus' task is then to gather the House of Israel from amongst the heathen and re-unite them with the Jews into a single holy nation of priests who then minister to the gentiles [and rule them as kings]

The role of the kingdom of the House of Israel is to emerge from the gentiles to make the jews jealous with the knowledge of their still-awaited messiah, the king come to finally make Israel one nation and make them holy , fit to serve God as priests, images of the son of God , perfect in love :-

Deuteronomy 32:21 ... I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

[Note that there is only one nation who are not a people, the House of Israel]

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God indeed knows exactly who are His now , because they will be used as priests and kings in the kingdom of God finally come upon the earth , and the resurrected sinners of the earth will then have to prove their love of God in works in the kingdom, but with help from the perfect priesthood formed by God according to His word from Israel alone beforehand, readied in this world for service in the next to all men.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[Note that the remnant of Israel, the 144,000 , are saved by their new unconditional covenant , Jer 31:31-34, because God will show His power of prophecy by doing what He said He would do , but the masses of the gentiles are saved by works in the kingdom where Israel serve as priests and kings ... it may help understanding to ask oneself who on earth Israel can serve as priests and kings if not the resurrected gentiles]

Iasion

The OT has a commandment to NOT bear false witness.
But the author if the Pastorals DID bear false witness.

Do you think it's OK to bear false witness?
Does God think false witnesses show his authority?


Iasion

ohmi

Please explain what 'false witness' that you are referring to... else how can anyone respond ?

storytime

I'll remind you again that what the story is portraying is a Tribal god and a tribal people. Restrictions and prohibitions apply, which are outlined in OT.

There is no promise to Gentiles, no inclusion of Gentiles, and no covenants made with Gentiles. The sons of Jacob were called Israel. Israel was Jacob, a man and the father patriarch of the 12 tribes.

What you're proposing in your reading is a Reconstructionist idea that imposes Gentiles as a people of God and which idea cannot fit into that closed society of people called Israel. You're also proposing an evangelical view that isn't within the purpose of Israel as a nation, and that of world domination by Israel. How the prophets posed the nation was within its own independence from other nations and nothing more. This was understood by the sages, priests, and lawgivers of Israel. Thier domination was over their own nation, as rulers who sought to keep their identity as "Israel" without losing it to intermarriage which would evaporate the name and identity within that structured enviroment. Gentile inclusion without circumcision and laws would certainly destroy both name and identity.

Gentile people (the uncircumcised) living in the old and new testament period had their own gods which they worshipped. These Gentile people were not wicked or evil. They were hated because they refused to worship Yahweh or recognize Yahweh as more powerful than their own gods. Yahweh acknowledged these Gentile gods as valid for non Israelites/Jews, but commanded the Israelites/Jews not to worship them. Many gods could not incorporate an independent nation to be totally a one minded people. The priesthood[Israel] as in reference to all the people of Israel was a separate nation from all other nations. "Ye have been made a kingdom of priests on the earth". This was established at Sinai in all the people of Israel as it reads, and particularly in the "elect" people called in covenant with Levi. (Malachi)

Look at the commandments for Israel. These rules and regulations were not meant for other people.

Jesus excluded Gentiles. Peter was the first to instigate the lie of salvation to Gentiles. His vision on a rooftop is shown as a lie due to OT prophecies being ceased[silenced] on punishment of death. When God had said "ye have seen nothing" the predictions and prophecies were exposed as lies. When Jesus said, "no one comes to the father but by me", the god of the Old Testament proves that he lied. It can't be "consistent" in NT when old testament plainly opposes what Jesus and the disciples preached. And we know it was a lie simply because Gentiles had no need of salvation. Salvation related to laws of Israel for people of Israel, as did "grace".

Resurrection, life, grace, rebirth, redemption, salvation, covenants, promises, heavens, hell, punishments, all belong to the people of Israel. It is their story. It is their identity. Nothing of it was meant for Gentiles.

ohmi

May rather I remind you from the scripture that Israel are chosen by God to be priests and kings ,and that this is the ONLY reason that they are redeemed FIRST , but the many are ALSO redeemed once the kingdom is established ... God is the saviour of all , but His plan is to redeem the priesthood first so that they can serve the many later :-

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This earth is indeed ONLY about redemption of a remnant 144,000 of Jacob's [ Israel's ] descendants , but you are ignoring the scripture above which states that the gentiles are redeemed later ... else why should God need priests and kings with no-one to minister to, no-one to rule !

No, I am not! ... Gods knows who are His in this world, and they are all descendants of Jacob [although most never accepted Judaism, never became Jews, but are of the House of Israel]

I am not! The scripture makes it very clear that the kingdom is NOT of this earth and that Israel will rule and minister in the new earth .

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Again you are completely ignoring God's declared plan in scripture ... stop reading 'theology' and read the scripture!

As the messiah has said, there are many things wrong with Judaism , it needs reform to the Law and the Prophets, not least the new covenant [Jer 31:31-34] and the acceptance of the paganised idol-worshiping House of Israel as being equally descended from Jacob, just as much as the Jews ,and explicitly included in the new covenant of grace for Israel.

The House of Israel also worship idols ,yet are descendants of Jacob:-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

God has NEVER acknowledged any other god as being valid whatsoever !!!

Israel wil not only be perfect priests, but also kings ... but you ignore whom they will rule as kings , the gentiles resurrected in the new earth.

I quite agree , although Israel is recorded in scripture as NOT keeping the laws God gave them ... so they need the NEW covenant of unconditional unmerited forgiveness [grace] which Jeremiah told the Jews about [but is still ignored] ... The old covenant was unproductive because Jews did not keep it ,and the House of Israel never left their pagan worship of other gods to keep it either.

Salvation of the gentiles is not in this earth , but Jesus has said that they will be saved later [Rev 7:9-10] and Israel will minister to them and rule them in the kingdom come upon the new earth.

This earth is indeed about the redemption of a remannat 144,000 of Israel , but you are simply ignoring what Jesus and the prophets and saints said, that Israel are redeemed first only to be priests and kings in the redekmption of the resurrected Gentiles in the kingdom once it is established.