Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gstafleu · 02-28-2007, 08:20 AM

According to Myth and Knowing: An Introduction to World Mythology by Leonard and McClure, The Hebrew word for "God" in Genesis 1 is "Elohim," which is a plural: "Gods." So Genesis 1:1 should read "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth." But, they say, it is "tradition" to translate "Elohim" in the singular (and they then proceed to follow that "tradition"

).

So what's up here, is "Elohim" indeed a plural and is the "tradition" to translate it as singular a pious fraud brought on by political correctness vis-a-vis monotheism? Or is there reason to assume that it is not really a plural, maybe the plural-looking form was in those days for some reason seen as a singular?

Gerard Stafleu

3DJay · 02-28-2007, 08:31 AM

Elohim could be used in a singular way, because it refered to the Canaanite "totality of Gods", or their pantheon of Gods. So, like you could use the words "pantheon", "group", "herd", or other similar words, in a singular way, so too can Elohim be used in such a way. It still refered to a plurality, however.

Peace

gstafleu · 02-28-2007, 08:38 AM

So it could be a collective noun? That's good to know, but, as I think you indicate, it then still should be translated in the plural: "the gods" or "the group of gods" or something like that. Not just one god.

Gerard Stafleu

3DJay · 02-28-2007, 08:59 AM

Yes. I think it's suppose to translate as, the court of El, the family of El, the children of El, or something like that. Maybe someone else knows, exactly.

Peace

spin · 02-28-2007, 09:52 AM

If )LHYM were thought of to be a plural, it would take a verb to match.

The Hebrew for

"and they said" is W)MRW (eg Gen 11:3, 18:9, etc),
while "and god said" is W)MR )LHYM (eg Gen 1:3).

"and they made" is WY($W (eg Ex 39:15),
while "and god made" is WY($ )LHYM (eg Gen 1:7).

What this means is that the verb with )LHYM is singular, ie it doesn't, in this case, end with a W.

Elohim usually features a singular verb, indicating that the word was considered singular.

spin

John Kesler · 02-28-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

So what's up here, is "Elohim" indeed a plural and is the "tradition" to translate it as singular a pious fraud brought on by political correctness vis-a-vis monotheism? Or is there reason to assume that it is not really a plural, maybe the plural-looking form was in those days for some reason seen as a singular?

My understanding is that elohim is like our English words deer and sheep, in that it can be singular or plural, and context determines which is the case. Regarding Genesis 1:1, a similar question took place on the biblical-studies list, and was answered by Christopher Heard:

Quote:

On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:59 PM, drbrucekgardner@... wrote:
> How do listers explain the collocation of a singular Hebrew verb
> 'bara'
> (create) with a plural name 'Elohim' (translated 'God' in English
> and 'ho Theos'
> [God] in LXX Greek), in Gen 1:1?

In biblical Hebrew, the morphologically plural 'elohim often--indeed,
usually--takes a singular verb, especially when the term is used to
refer to the God of Israel. It's a well-recognized feature of the
language. How it got that way is a question for historical
linguistics, and largely for speculation, but there's probably no
"stealth" metaphysical or theological "claim" built into this usage.

> Similarly, how do they interpret the plurality of the first person in
> Genesis 1:26 - "Let US make humankind in OUR image."
>
> Trinitarians might point to incidences of mixed singularity and
> plurality as
> inbuilt signs of the plurality and unity of the Triune God. How do the
> professionals interpret such references?

In my judgment, the most plausible understanding is that God is
speaking to the "divine council" (one might say, the "lesser gods").
The underlying metaphor for Genesis 1 is kingship (God commands,
things obey), and the "council" (or, we in the US might think,
"cabinet") is a standard feature of royal administration. The "divine
council" appears a number of places in the Tanakh (1 Kings 22 and
Psalm 82 spring immediately to mind, plus Job 1, Psalm 29, etc.) and
fits the cultural milieu (whether that's Mosaic or Persian-era)
rather better than any reading that attributes either Victorian
English or multiple-personality disorder to Elohim.

I can imagine a possible suggestion that 'elohim be translated "the
gods" here to explain the plural, but 'elohim lacks the definite
article _and_ takes a singular verb (wayyomer) in Gen 1:26, so I
think reading 'elohim as plural here is grammatically contraindicated.

Chris

--
R. Christopher Heard
Assistant Professor of Religion
Seaver Fellow in Religion
Pepperdine University
Malibu, California 90263-4352
Professional Web Page: http://faculty.pepperdine.edu/cheard
Internet Resource Index: http://www.iTanakh.org
Personal Web Page: http://www.heardworld.com

spin · 02-28-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

My understanding is that elohim is like our English words deer and sheep, in that it can be singular or plural, and context determines which is the case.

That should communicate the idea.

What's the difference between the sheep is and the sheep are?

As the gods usually don't do anything in the Hebrew bible it's hard to find Elohim with a plural verb, but there are a few examples of just that (eg Deut 29:26 and 1 Kgs 20:10).

spin

driver8 · 02-28-2007, 10:43 AM

Gerard, you would be interested in looking at this page http://cc.usu.edu/%7Efath6/bible.htm, authored by Dr. Richley Crapo, chair of USU's Religious Studies Certificate Program.

Of particular interest to your question:

Quote:

Who were the Original Elohim?

Genesis 1:1 tells us that "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth." Of all the names given to God in the Hebrew Bible, Elohim is curious because unlike the others it uses a plural noun to identify God, while the other names, like El or Yahweh, are singular. Just why was the Hebrew God known both as El ("God") and as Elohim ("Gods")?

El Elyon, God the Most High

Before the Hebrew Bible was written, the Semitic religions of the Middle East universally distinguished between El, sometimes called Bull El to emphasize his great power and fertility in his role as the Father of the Gods, and the Great Assembly of those other gods, his children. El was also referred to as the Father of Years, and the Father of Humanity, names that emphasize his role the the antecedent and ultimate source of all things. This name continued to be used for the Supreme God of the Hebrew religion in biblical times, although it had also come to be used as a generic term meaning "(a) god" as well. This expansion of a proper name for use as a general term of reference in biblical Hebrew after about 1000 BCE can be seen as a step in the direction toward monotheism. Although the Hebrew people continued to recognize the existence of the gods of other nations, they viewed them as subordinate to the God of Israel, and the use of his name as a generic term subsumed and subordinated them much as Xerox has come to mean "photocopy" or as any facial tissue is sometimes called "a kleenex" today. While the Hebrew term El, is best understood as a title, meaning "God", the Supreme God of the Hebrews also had a personal name, Elyon (which is often rendered as "the Most High" in English, rendering its significance as a name opaque).

Quote:

Part of the path towards monotheism involved the elevation of the term elohim to the role of a a personal title, Elohim for the Supreme God. This usage occurred first among those Israelites who were involved in the state-sponsored system of Temple worship of God in Jerusalem and is exemplified by Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth . . ." a text that was likely first written for use in the Temple cultus. In it, it is no longer the collective elohim (or "Host of Heaven") who are involved in the pagent of creation, but Elohim (the Supreme God) who is portrayed as the Creator. While the name retains the plural suffix -im, its use as the name of a single deity is indicated by the fact that the verb ("created") is is the singular rather than plural form. Nevertheless, despite the official recognition of the supremacy of the God of Israel as the Elohim, the term elohim continued also to be used to refer to the pantheon of the lesser gods collectively, the old Assembly of the Gods that included the gods of the other Semitic nations of the Middle East, the offspring of El who stood above them all. This is especially noteable in Psalm 82's early declaration of the Hebrew religion's emphasis on justice and morality, which tells us that "El has taken his place in the Divine Council; in the midst of the elohim he holds judgment: `How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Give justice to the weak and the orphan; maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." The Hebrew God, El, speaks scornfully of the gods of the Assembly, "They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk around in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken" and speaks prophetically to them, "I say, `You are gods, children of the Most High [i.e., of El, himself], all of you; nevertheless you shall die like mortals, and fall as one man, O princes." (3.) Though El, the Father of the gods, is supreme, this is clearly not the "monotheism" of our modern understanding.

ModernHeretic · 02-28-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Quote:

Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

Quote:

Genesis 31
18 and he drove all his livestock ahead of him, along with all the goods he had accumulated in Paddan Aram, [a] to go to his father Isaac in the land of Canaan.
19 When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father's household gods. 20 Moreover, Jacob deceived Laban the Aramean by not telling him he was running away.

Quote:

10 He said, "Praise be to the LORD, who rescued you from the hand of the Egyptians and of Pharaoh, and who rescued the people from the hand of the Egyptians. 11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly." 12 Then Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, brought a burnt offering and other sacrifices to God, and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses' father-in-law in the presence of God.

Yes, the word Elohim is plural. It may have been used to refer to the God of Israel in some cases, but clearly there was a belief that there was more than one God. Whether the "Elohim" in Genesis 1 refers to the hebrew God or to "the Gods" is debatable, however if you look at Genesis 1:26 which I posted above, it certainly seems like there was a belief that the man and the woman were created in the image of "the gods", given that we see the word "our" used twice in that passage.

spin · 02-28-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernHeretic

Yes, the word Elohim is plural. It may have been used to refer to the God of Israel in some cases, but clearly there was a belief that there was more than one God. Whether the "Elohim" in Genesis 1 refers to the hebrew God or to "the Gods" is debatable, however if you look at Genesis 1:26 which I posted above, it certainly seems like there was a belief that the man and the woman were created in the image of "the gods", given that we see the word "our" used twice in that passage.

It might be nice if you'd read the other posts in this thread, rather than ignore the grammar and other indications.

spin

02-28-2007, 08:20 AM	#1
gstafleu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,719	Gen 1: "In the beginning the Gods created the heavens and the earth," a Pious Fraud? According to Myth and Knowing: An Introduction to World Mythology by Leonard and McClure, The Hebrew word for "God" in Genesis 1 is "Elohim," which is a plural: "Gods." So Genesis 1:1 should read "In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth." But, they say, it is "tradition" to translate "Elohim" in the singular (and they then proceed to follow that "tradition"). So what's up here, is "Elohim" indeed a plural and is the "tradition" to translate it as singular a pious fraud brought on by political correctness vis-a-vis monotheism? Or is there reason to assume that it is not really a plural, maybe the plural-looking form was in those days for some reason seen as a singular? Gerard Stafleu

02-28-2007, 09:52 AM	#5
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	If )LHYM were thought of to be a plural, it would take a verb to match. The Hebrew for "and they said" is W)MRW (eg Gen 11:3, 18:9, etc), while "and god said" is W)MR )LHYM (eg Gen 1:3). "and they made" is WY($W (eg Ex 39:15), while "and god made" is WY($ )LHYM (eg Gen 1:7). What this means is that the verb with )LHYM is singular, ie it doesn't, in this case, end with a W. Elohim usually features a singular verb, indicating that the word was considered singular. spin

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02-28-2007, 08:31 AM	#2
3DJay Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 363	Elohim could be used in a singular way, because it refered to the Canaanite "totality of Gods", or their pantheon of Gods. So, like you could use the words "pantheon", "group", "herd", or other similar words, in a singular way, so too can Elohim be used in such a way. It still refered to a plurality, however. Peace

02-28-2007, 08:38 AM	#3
gstafleu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,719	So it could be a collective noun? That's good to know, but, as I think you indicate, it then still should be translated in the plural: "the gods" or "the group of gods" or something like that. Not just one god. Gerard Stafleu

02-28-2007, 08:59 AM	#4
3DJay Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 363	Yes. I think it's suppose to translate as, the court of El, the family of El, the children of El, or something like that. Maybe someone else knows, exactly. Peace

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