Chris Weimer

Is it more likely that P46 was written in the late 2nd century or early 3rd century?

Chris Weimer

No one is interested in the dating of P46? What about it's implications?

Toto

What are the implications in a difference between late 2nd century and early 3rd century? Almost everyone dates the scriptures there to an earlier date than late 2nd century, and mountainman would not accept either date.

gregor

I would be quite interested in reading the issues surrounding a dating dispute and its implications. However, as I canot add anything of value, and I am lethally lazy - too lazy to look it up, I thought I'd watch from the side-lines.

Julian

200CE seems a reasonable estimate and not all that controversial. The authentic Pauline epistles would have to be early, anyways, considering their lack of gospels references. Paleographically it fits, as well, despite a scibe who seemed asleep. Imust add, though, that his handwriting is excellent. Readable, clear, and steady. Nonetheless, his mind seems to have wandered, even if his hand didn't.

My main interest would be the text-type issue. In my mind we have a very poor system for text types at the moment and P46 only underscores that. What is the text type of P46? No one seems to really know. Why is that? Because the current text type classification is moronic, at best. Everything happens gradually, at least (and especially) where change over time occurs. To try and coerce 6000 manuscripts into 3 groups is absurd.

Not trying to go off-topic, just saying that there is no reason to challenge a 200CE date. Of course, I could be wrong.

Julian

dog-on

Has a carbon dating been done on the papyrus itself to ascertain the validity of the paleographic assessment? If not, why?

gregor

dog-on

I would suspect for two reasons: (i) it destroys the tested part (even if a tiny fragment is used) and (ii) IIRC, better than a 50 year +/- precision may not be available under C14 dating techniques, so absolute precision is unavailable.

Eisenmann (IIRC) challenged DSS dating on the second issue, I believe.

mountainman

Also the papyri are easily prone to contamination
by modern and less ancient particles, unless they
perhaps are new and freshly uncovered.

All papyri related to the new testament have been
dated by handwriting analysis. C14 testing has been
done on the binding of 2 NT codexes, with the results
1) gThomas 350 CE; 2) gJudas 290 CE +/- 60 years.

Boro Nut

It won't work that's why. Carbon dating only works on Shrouds of Turin, and then only to confirm the presence of blood on them, and the presence of a single Y chromosome in it, not the actual dating of the 13th century cloth itself. There is a mountain of overwhelming evidence that it also works on inorganic geological formations in the region of Ararat, which can confirm their original inherent woodyness prior to them slowly turning to basalt, but it's all still locked in the Ark of the Covenant somewhere in Ron Wyatt's garage unfortunately, along with other amazing finds, like Noah's diary:

"Tuesday the Nisan of Octembuary, Genesis 7:19

Rained all day today so we all decided to stop in and shovel dung. Beginning to wish I'd included more than one small window now. Still, if the dung keeps up like this we'll reach it in no time. Relations are becoming a bit strained. Nobody will admit bringing all these bluebottles.

Told the missus I'd put in some patio doors when it brightens up a bit. She's still banging on and on about the unicorn kind. I've told her I'd have brought some if I'd known. I honestly thought they were a type of duck.

The leak on deck 2 is getting worse and we're developing a definite list. Not sure the old girl can take too much more of this. I've reluctantly decided that if things aren't any better by Genesis 7:20 we're going to have to ditch the dinosaurs.

Shem says the fodder is running perilously low, but Ham reckons there's enough prunes to last for months. I'm not too keen on the idea of feeding them to the elephants though.

At last some good news! Japheth says the weevil kind finally turned up in a lintel. I feel a lot better now they're back where they belong locked in the safe with the termite kind.

Shem's wife is looking a lot better today, and is starting to sit up in bed, poor girl. Just checked the rota. The bad news is it's my turn for the syphilis next.

The missus suggested sending a raven out of the window to see if it brought back a small branch in case it had stopped raining yet. Silly cow. Of the two ravens onboard, what are the chances of one of them being the world's only homing raven do you think? Or we could just wait until the incessant fucking thrumming on the roof stops. Silly cow. It's beginning to occur to me I've already got all the three sons I'm going to have. It's a good job lions hibernate, that's all I can say. Silly cow."

Boro Nut

hatsoff

I'm interested--just not qualified. However, I will say that whichever end of the spectrum one gravitates toward, does it really matter in the larger picture? I mean, paleographic dating is inexact, so whichever hypothesis it supports must acknowledge the significant possibility of error.