Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hatsoff · 02-01-2007, 03:12 PM

Wikipedia has listed an apocryphal Epistle of Paul to the Ionians and Third Epistle to the Thessalonians. I have determined that the latter is a hypothetical letter which probably never existed. However, I can find no information on the Epistle to the Ionians. Is it real? Or just another wikipedia error?

Thanks in advance!

S.C.Carlson · 02-01-2007, 03:56 PM

Never heard of it. You might ask the user Cheesedreams, who put it in.

Toto · 02-01-2007, 04:23 PM

CheeseDreams

Quote:

This user is banned from editing Wikipedia

It is suspected or confirmed that this user has used one or more sock puppets for abuse, libel, or ban evasion.

From here it appears that the basis was some dispute over Christian history, which I will not even try to follow.

Toto · 02-01-2007, 04:35 PM

An Epistle to the Ionians is highly unlikely. Ionia was an ancient geographical name, and Paul appears to write letters to city churches in the Roman Empire. Jews and others refer to all Greeks as "Ionians" - but that would be like a letter to the "Greeks" - not very personal.

Could this be a little joke from CheeseDreams - like the map makers who insert non-existent cities in their maps to track unauthorized copies?

Ben C Smith · 02-01-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

An Epistle to the Ionians is highly unlikely. Ionia was an ancient geographical name, and Paul appears to write letters to city churches in the Roman Empire.

Except Galatians. Galatia was a region (see Galatians 1.2).

Quote:

Could this be a little joke from CheeseDreams - like the map makers who insert non-existent cities in their maps to track unauthorized copies?

Either that or just plain incompetence.

Ben.

Chris Weimer · 02-01-2007, 04:58 PM

I think this user is more deluded than jocular...

hatsoff · 02-01-2007, 04:59 PM

I bet it came from a breaking apart of "Thessa" and "lonians" across two lines. Something like this, for example, may have led to confusion on the part of idiots like CheeseDreams.

rob117 · 02-01-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

I bet it came from a breaking apart of "Thessa" and "lonians" across two lines. Something like this, for example, may have led to confusion on the part of idiots like CheeseDreams.

Dude... that's textual criticism:notworthy:

hatsoff · 02-01-2007, 05:11 PM

Heh...I guess it is.

So, am I to understand that the only known non-canonical Pauline Epistles are 3 Corinthians and Laodiceans?

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Toto · 02-01-2007, 05:21 PM

It's amazing how that Epistle to the Ionians has got around.

There are also the non-canonical Letters between Paul and Seneca. Perhaps these are so blatant forgeries that they aren't even counted as non-canonical?

02-01-2007, 03:12 PM	#1
hatsoff Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 740	Paul's epistle to the Ionians? Wikipedia has listed an apocryphal Epistle of Paul to the Ionians and Third Epistle to the Thessalonians. I have determined that the latter is a hypothetical letter which probably never existed. However, I can find no information on the Epistle to the Ionians. Is it real? Or just another wikipedia error? Thanks in advance!

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02-01-2007, 03:56 PM	#2
S.C.Carlson Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,307	Never heard of it. You might ask the user Cheesedreams, who put it in.

02-01-2007, 04:35 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	An Epistle to the Ionians is highly unlikely. Ionia was an ancient geographical name, and Paul appears to write letters to city churches in the Roman Empire. Jews and others refer to all Greeks as "Ionians" - but that would be like a letter to the "Greeks" - not very personal. Could this be a little joke from CheeseDreams - like the map makers who insert non-existent cities in their maps to track unauthorized copies?

02-01-2007, 04:58 PM	#6
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	I think this user is more deluded than jocular...

02-01-2007, 04:59 PM	#7
hatsoff Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 740	I bet it came from a breaking apart of "Thessa" and "lonians" across two lines. Something like this, for example, may have led to confusion on the part of idiots like CheeseDreams.

02-01-2007, 05:11 PM	#9
hatsoff Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 740	Heh...I guess it is. So, am I to understand that the only known non-canonical Pauline Epistles are 3 Corinthians and Laodiceans? Thanks for the help, everyone.

02-01-2007, 05:21 PM	#10
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	It's amazing how that Epistle to the Ionians has got around. There are also the non-canonical Letters between Paul and Seneca. Perhaps these are so blatant forgeries that they aren't even counted as non-canonical?

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