jeffevnz

I'm kinda new, so I apologize if I'm way behind the discussion...

I was recently shocked to learn that the opening line of Genesis literally translates as "In the beginning the gods created the heaven and the earth..." Genesis is about the last place I would expect to find (apparent) polytheism.

So, I asked a Christian who's taken some Bible study what's going on here and he tells me that the use of the plural is somehow just a way of showing respect, and that the passage should be read as singular. I've surfed around on the web a little and found this explanation a few other places too.

But I'm not sure I believe it. Later on, Genesis has another line that I find just as mysterious: "And God said, 'Let us make man in our image and likeness.'" Is God referring to himself in the plural? If so, is it a way of showing respect for himself?? There's also another weird part, where the Bible describes 3 men approaching Abraham, and Abraham addresses them as "God". I wonder if the original Hebrew was a plural there as well.

I get the uncanny feeling that Genesis is really a polytheistic story. Does anyone else agree with me about that? But if that's the case, how did all the Jews and Christians overlook this for so long?

Phlox Pyros

It doesn't. Even though the word is in the plural form, it is used as a singular. That is the reason it is translated as "God" in every bible with which I am familiar.

Hebrews had many words that were plural in form but singular in meaning such as water (mayim) and heaven (shamayim).

It is confusing to everyone who learns a little Hebrew and then looks at the first part of Genesis. Happened to me as well.

jeffevnz

Well that would explain the mysterious plural, but what about the other passages I mentioned?

John Kesler

Although it's possible that Genesis 1 retains vestiges of polytheism, another explanation is that the plural usuage is a reference to God's heavenly court, conceived of as being like those of earthly rulers. See Job 1:6 and 1 Kings 22:19ff for example.

Regarding the three visitors of Genesis 18, presuambly they are Yahweh and two angels. See Genesis 18:33 and 19:1 (keeping in mind, too, that chapter breaks were added later).

Sheshbazzar

I composed a long concise reply but the net ate it
Briefly, Genesis 18 and 19 are anomalies, YHWH is referred to as "three men" and in the both the plural and singular forms as indicated in the English text, with the term Elohim not being used until 19:29, (the small "lord" in the text is "adoni" in the Hebrew.)
These are the only texts within the TaNaKa (or "Old Testament") that I'm aware of where "YHWH" is specifically presented as being plural.
Genesis 18:22-3, is particularly intriguing in that;
"The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before YHWH, and then Abraham approached him and said..."
This of course is contrary to the latter texts that are vehement in their declarations that YHWH is "One" and "alone" and that "there is none beside Him" etc.
This story, not agreeing with latter Jewish and Christian theological ideas is usually just ignored or 'glossed' over.
Some Christians will point to it as a 'proof text' for the 'trinity' doctrine, because its obvious reference to the "three", but back off when it is pointed out that then one of those three would have to be 'The Father', inhabiting a physical body, sitting, eating, drinking, and communing with Abraham, which would contradict both the Jewish view, and the Christian, that "No man may look upon YHWH and live" and that "No man hath at any time seen the Father"
There is much more that could be said, but this should serve as food for further thought.

Joan of Bark

There are frequent references throughout the Torah to other Gods, usually by YHWH himself! He doesn't deny the existence of other gods when speaking to his people (the Hebrews), only that they should not worship these "gods of other nations". As far as I know, there is only one reference (in Deuteronomy) to one-and-only-one God. Historians (like E.P. Sanders in his book about the historical Jesus) believe the Hebrews became monotheistic during the Diaspora (well after the Torah). Before that they were polytheistic but (usually) monolatrous.

Sheshbazzar

Perhaps this is the one you had in mind,
A few additional Scriptures;
1 Samuel 2:2
2 Samuel 7:22
1 Chron. 17:20
Isa. 44:24
Isa. 45.5
Isa. 45:6
Isa. 45:21

Loomis

That’s a great verse. There’s no doubt about it: Second Isaiah is the poster child for modern monotheistic Yahwism. :thumbs:


Isaiah 44:24

This is what Yahweh, your protector, says,

the one who formed you in the womb:

“I am Yahweh, who made everything,

who alone stretched out the sky,

who fashioned the earth all by myself"


Have you ever wondered what the author was thinking?

Have you ever wondered what would cause him to say this?

What would provoke the author to write this?

Why was this clarification necessary?

What was the source of the confusion? :devil1:


Genesis 1:26

Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”


It looks to me like the author of Isaiah 44:24 is going out of his way to emphasize that Yahweh was not one of the gods in Genesis 1:26.

How do you say “Isaiah 44:24 is a polemic against the first creation story” in Hebrew?

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Here is a good read covering a lot of the above topics, especially the plural form Elohim and the usage in Genesis 1:26.

http://web.archive.org/web/200410221...ive/elohim.htm
CHRISTIAN MONOTHEISM: A BIBLICAL THEOLOGY
By Daniel L. Segraves

He covers a lot of the Hebrew grammar and verse issues above.
It can be appreciated whatever your doctrinal and philosophical stance

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Tao of Pooh

I am by no means an authority on Christianity or even religion in general but I do remember reading that the word Elohim is a male word (El) with a female ending (ohim) and that this pointed to what was originally considered the dual nature of YHWH ie: male/female; god/goddess. This plurality of YHWH is further shown in the holy trinity: Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost pertaining to the feminine/goddess aspect.
Also there's something about Logos (the word) meaning Sophia and it referring to the feminine/goddess aspect of YHWH.
Maybe someone more knowledgable than me can expand on these things.

Or tell us I'm talking outta my ass



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