jbernier

What has any of this to do with whether or not original sin is the same as human imperfection (which is what I took issue with in your earlier posting and that which you were replying from my postings)? This is a particular model to explain the phenomenon of human imperfection but is not the only model. Since it is not the only model one can recognize human imperfection without buying into original sin (which you earlier indicated one cannot do).

jbernier

I think I was unclear. What I meant was that the doctrine of original sin is logically independent of the phenomenon of human imperfection. Converted is right insofar as he states that all people do less than great things at various times in their life. Recognizing this, however, does not necessitate a believe in original sin; the doctrine of original sin is one hypothesis to explain the phenomenon but the doctrine is not the phenomenon itself (as he had earlier suggested).

Gregg

No, they simply recognize that "emphasizing love, redemption, and faith" over sin and guilt is an attempt to draw attention away from the less palatable aspects of traditional or orthodox Christian doctrine. It is the Wizard of Oz defense ("pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"). The underlying issues still have not been addressed.

The fact is the number of Christians who believe that human beings are "born sinners," with basically evil, twisted, and corrupt natures inherited from their early ancestors, is by no means small. If you do not feel that this teaching represents "true Christianity," then it seems you need to develop a consistent theology (including a consistent approach to the Bible) to justify your different point of view. New Thought Christian churches at least attempt this, even if it puts them outside the mainstream.

Also, it seems your time would be better spent seeking to persuade other Christians that your view of Christianity is the correct one. Athiests would have an easier time accepting your claim that "true Christianity" is not all about sin and guilt if all the major denominations repudiated those doctrines, revised their theologies accordingly, and abjectly apologized for all the psychological damage they've inflicted on people for the past 1,700 years or so.Dunno. What exactly does Christianity that doesn't include God look like?

jdlongmire

I'm tryin' here...

Is a Christocentric worldview compatible with an Atheistic worldview?

jdlongmire

going once...

Mageth

Read Joseph Campbell, esp. his book Thou Art That, or perhaps some John Shelby Spong.

One can view the Biblical accounts as myths, Christ as myth, and even God as myth, while still appreciating and accepting that those myths convey truths that are relevant to the human condition and the human psyche. One doesn't have to accept them as literal truths; one can accept them as metaphorical truths. The Christ image may be viewed as a mythic ideal for us to emulate (or find or recognize, really) within ourselves and to recognize in others. "God" can be viewed as something within us all, rather than something "out there" separate from us. The "kingdom of God" can be viewed as being here on earth, right now, among and within us all (and even within a stick ) and not some future promised utopia. "Salvation" can be viewed as an awakening to the Christ image within each of us, and within others. (There's a lot more to it than that, but I won't go all out on this right now).

The Christ image, BTW, is not unique to Christianity. Again, read Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

winstonjen

Here's my question (apologies if it's been said before). Why would a perfect god, who needs and wants nothing, create anything at all?

Magus55

I agree God needs nothing, but I don't agree that God can't want anything.

Evoken

I think "altruistic" is a more apropiate term.

converted

My response is "why do parents have children?" We could all be sterilized, use birth control, or God forbid have abortions, but people still continue to choose to have kids. There is no real good reason for having a child other than to show love to another being. The same applies to God. God is the heavenly father of all of us for one reason: Love.