Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-06-2007, 03:51 PM

God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer (or via: amazon.co.uk)

This title will be released on February 19, 2008.

Discussed here by Stanley Fish on his New York Times blog.

Quote:

Bart D. Ehrman is a professor of religious studies and his book is titled “God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question – Why We Suffer.” A graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary, Ehrman trained to be a scholar of New Testament Studies and a minister. Born-again as a teenager, devoted to the scriptures (he memorized entire books of the New Testament), strenuously devout, he nevertheless lost his faith because, he reports, “I could no longer reconcile the claims of faith with the fact of life . . . I came to the point where I simply could not believe that there is a good and kindly disposed Ruler who is in charge.” “The problem of suffering,” he recalls, “became for me the problem of faith.”

Much of the book is taken up with Ehrman’s examination of biblical passages that once gave him solace, but that now deliver only unanswerable questions: “Given [the] theology of selection – that God had chosen the people of Israel to be in a special relationship with him – what were Ancient Israelite thinkers to suppose when things did not go as planned or expected? . . . . How were they to explain the fact that the people of God suffered from famine, drought, and pestilence?”

Ehrman knows and surveys the standard answers to these questions – God is angry at a sinful, disobedient people; suffering is redemptive, as Christ demonstrated on the cross; evil and suffering exist so that God can make good out of them; suffering induces humility and is an antidote to pride; suffering is a test of faith – but he finds them unpersuasive and as horrible in their way as the events they fail to explain: “If God tortures, maims and murders people just to see how they will react – to see if they will not blame him, when in fact he is to blame – then this does not seem to me to be a God worthy of worship.”

Cege · 11-06-2007, 04:36 PM

This sounds like a tough read, but I think I'll tackle it when it's released.

I read C.S. Lewis' The Problem With Pain, though, so I think it would be a good comparison to revisit it, then compare with Ehrman's take.

Malachi151 · 11-06-2007, 05:43 PM

Seems like a silly premise for a book. Why go into all this nonsense about God and not just go strait to explaining the text from the human point of view, and how and why the Jewish people wrote what they wrote and invented the God that they did.

How can he "blame God", when God didn't write the book in the first place?

gregor · 11-07-2007, 06:03 AM

If the book is simply Ehrman's personal exposition on the problem of theodicy and the Bible's insufficiency in dealing with it (as opposed to an academic survey of the issue), I would prefer that he not devote his resources to a "popular" topic at the loss to other work.

Ray Moscow · 11-07-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

If the book is simply Ehrman's personal exposition on the problem of theodicy and the Bible's insufficiency in dealing with it (as opposed to an academic survey of the issue), I would prefer that he not devote his resources to a "popular" topic at the loss to other work.

Me, too. Although I like his writing style and insights, his talents seem wasted in writing a book on theodicy. Any of us could do that.

What we need are more real biblical scholars educating the rest of us on what can be learned from biblical criticism.

Roger Pearse · 11-07-2007, 08:53 AM

I was wondering what part of text critical studies equips him specially to write on this, in a way that being a professional software developer would not. So evidently secure, well-off, and successful a person is perhaps not best placed to complain that a non-existent God permits "suffering", after all.

judge · 11-07-2007, 02:29 PM

At least Ehrman has people's ear, to some degree. AFAIR there is no place in the bible where it explains why people suffer in any broad perspective (many have recognized that the metaphysical teaching of Christ or Paul do touch on how to alleviate ones own suffering though).
And so many people are left with the idea that the bible is God's inerrant word and therefore the answer to the question can be extracted from it.
The problem is, as Ehrman found, the answers christian theology can give can be deeply unsatisfying or even cruel.

So it might be a positive that someone who is to some degree in the public eye can give some encouragement to look beyond some of the less satisfying options to find a better approach to this earthly life.

Toto · 11-07-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

.... So evidently secure, well-off, and successful a person is perhaps not best placed to complain that a non-existent God permits "suffering", after all.

Are you saying he is not allowed to empathize with those who are not secure and well-off?

I gather he gets most of his examples from the Bible in any case.

Ruhan · 11-08-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregor

If the book is simply Ehrman's personal exposition on the problem of theodicy and the Bible's insufficiency in dealing with it (as opposed to an academic survey of the issue), I would prefer that he not devote his resources to a "popular" topic at the loss to other work.

Erhman is a human being before he is a scholar. Surely the man has a right to exorcise his own demons if this book is indeed a personal exposition?

MiddleMan · 11-08-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I was wondering what part of text critical studies equips him specially to write on this, in a way that being a professional software developer would not. So evidently secure, well-off, and successful a person is perhaps not best placed to complain that a non-existent God permits "suffering", after all.

I have similar thoughts about former prison librarians and the topics they pretend to represent with authority.

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11-06-2007, 04:36 PM	#2
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	This sounds like a tough read, but I think I'll tackle it when it's released. I read C.S. Lewis' The Problem With Pain, though, so I think it would be a good comparison to revisit it, then compare with Ehrman's take.

11-06-2007, 05:43 PM	#3
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	Seems like a silly premise for a book. Why go into all this nonsense about God and not just go strait to explaining the text from the human point of view, and how and why the Jewish people wrote what they wrote and invented the God that they did. How can he "blame God", when God didn't write the book in the first place?

11-07-2007, 06:03 AM	#4
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	If the book is simply Ehrman's personal exposition on the problem of theodicy and the Bible's insufficiency in dealing with it (as opposed to an academic survey of the issue), I would prefer that he not devote his resources to a "popular" topic at the loss to other work.

11-07-2007, 08:53 AM	#6
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I was wondering what part of text critical studies equips him specially to write on this, in a way that being a professional software developer would not. So evidently secure, well-off, and successful a person is perhaps not best placed to complain that a non-existent God permits "suffering", after all.

11-07-2007, 02:29 PM	#7
judge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bli Bli Posts: 3,135	At least Ehrman has people's ear, to some degree. AFAIR there is no place in the bible where it explains why people suffer in any broad perspective (many have recognized that the metaphysical teaching of Christ or Paul do touch on how to alleviate ones own suffering though). And so many people are left with the idea that the bible is God's inerrant word and therefore the answer to the question can be extracted from it. The problem is, as Ehrman found, the answers christian theology can give can be deeply unsatisfying or even cruel. So it might be a positive that someone who is to some degree in the public eye can give some encouragement to look beyond some of the less satisfying options to find a better approach to this earthly life.

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