Johnny Skeptic

It is absurd for anyone to believe that a God exists who wants people to believe that he can predict the future. If he did, all that he would have needed to do would have been to make some indisputable predictions regarding when and where some natural disasters would occur. By "when," I mean month, day, and year.

There is no way that God intended for prophecy to strengthen the faith of Old Testament Jews. If he did, he would have told Ezekiel about Alexander. As it was, generations of Jews died without seeing the Tyre prophecy fulfilled. They certainly believed that it would be fulfilled during their lifetimes. First of all, they believed that God was angry with the Tyrians, and wanted to destroy Tyre. They certainly would not have believed that it would take centuries for God to punish the Tyrians. In addition, they certainly would not have expected God to punish the Tyrians' great great great great grandchildren for the ancestors' sins. Further, it was wrong for God to punish Tyrian babies for sins that their parents committed.

There is no way that Ezekiel would have predicted that "a king of kings" (Nebuchadnezzar) would invade Tyre, go down its streets, and tear down its towers, and fail to conquer Tyre. When it became obvious that Nebuchadnezzar was not going to defeat Tyre, that is when someone added the "many nations" part to Ezekiel 26, and falsely claimed in Ezekiel 29 that God would give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre.

There is little doubt that Ezekiel knew of Nebuchadnezzar's plans to invade Tyre in advance. Nebuchadnezzar had a penchant for conquest, and his kingdom was located close to Tyre. Since even the New Testament criticizes Tyre, a reasonable case can be made that Jews and Christians were jealous of the wealth of Tyre, and wanted God to punish Tyre because the Tyrians were able to gain wealth that they were not able to gain. Considering the fact that most of the people in the world at that time who had heard about the God of the Bible opposed him, it is an absurd notion that God would pick on just one kingdom out of all of the kingdoms in the world, take centuries to cause the defeat of the kingdom, inspire Ezekiel to claim that "a kings of kings" would invade Tyre and fail to defeat it, and break his word to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre. If anything, the Tyre prophecy weakened the faith of generations of Jews, strengthened the faith of generations of Tyrians, and reduced the size of the current Christian church by failing to mention that Alexander would defeat Tyre.

The Tyre prophecy is one of the very best examples that proves that the Bible is fraudulent.

WVIncagold

bolding mine
Dispute over the Holy Land has been going on for 6000 years so what' new?
World hostility toward Israelsame as above as long as people steal other peoples lands and claim it as their own you will find this similar with the American Indian tribes toward European settlers
World Peace and Safety movementHUH? This is a bad thing?
Globalization (World Government)has been the goal of powerful people throughout history including the Jews and Yahweh so whats the point?
Hostility to ChristianityOh poor me i am so persecuted because i am a Christian. whaa whaa i cant understand why people are hostile toward me when all i want to do is dominate how they think and act. this is nothing more than a fantasy built up by the majority of religious bigots who want to push their dogma on those who don't believe
Apostate ChristianityTrue Scotsman here? whats the difference?
FaminesHave always occurred and according to Christians because of gods will
PlaguesHave always existed and will continue to do so forever since viruses adapt and mutate and EVOLVE!
WarsYou theist stop starting them i am sure the rest of us will be thankful
The decline of western DemocracyShow me anywhere in the bible where the word democracy exists! let alone a knowledge of the west, united states, or for that matter anything farther west or north of Rome!

God has been supposed to come for 2000 years. Yet theist like yourself continue to ignore the fact that the prophesies of Tyre came up not only short but not even close to the mark. What is it when someone says something will happen and it doesn't. isn't that a lie?

renassault

When you start applying logic to such an argument one begins to wonder how ancient "forgerers" were able to know such minute details such as specific personages as is in the case of Jeremiah and Daniel, yet be so vague about this, and "FIX" a prophecy by making it so vague. For an example of ex eventu prophecies look up the verses in 2 Baruch and the Sybilline Oracles pertaining to the destruction of the Temple and how detailed they are (burning Temple one example). This is clearly the case where Ezekiel saw the coming of Nebuchadnezzar and the later leaders who would destroy Tyre, Nebuchadnezzar being the first: The waves of the sea coming one after the other, what does that tell you? One nation after another. I already gave an example with Ezekiel using this in an earlier part of the book. There's nothing here but your personal wishes to see a failed prophecy.

arnoldo

It's clear to anyone that the forth beast is not Greece despite any "spin" and the trying to mix the vision of Chapter 8 and Chapter 7. The "ten king" explanation is classic half truth.

See Chart Below: I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. source

Minimalist

I can't believe this thread is still going. I just have some questions for the jesus freaks.

How come, if the city was totally destroyed as you claim, that your friggin' jesus went there?

Matthew 15:


How could Herod be pissed at Tyre and Sidon?

Acts 12:20

How did Tyre mint their own coins between 129 and 66 BC if they had been destroyed and never re-built?

http://members.verizon.net/vze3xycv/...ns/tyrePic.htm

Why, when Phoenecia was incorporated into the province of Syria did the Romans permit the destroyed town of Tyre to be self-governing?

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-23371/Lebanon


How many times does history have to smack you in the mouth before you realize that your bible is flat out wrong?

spin

You just posted this stuff in the wrong place. This is a Tyre thread.


spin

Jack the Bodiless

Ack, thread necromancy!
This issue has already been covered on numerous "Tyre threads". Nebby was an overking, a ruler over many nations: Ezekiel specifically describes him as "king of kings". This is a reference to the multiple "nations" of his army, which were to be used in successive waves.

Those who still wish to argue otherwise must address Nebby's failure to perform the tasks that HE was SPECIFICALLY prophesied to do. Successive apologists have demonstrated their inability to do so.

And there is Ezekiel's own admission of failure, and his promise that Nebby would take Egypt instead: which was, again, a complete and utter failure.

arnoldo

Fine. Since the minimalist school of biblical thought is that the bible is only fictional stories and anything in the bible must be verified by archaelogical evidence please answer the following question. Is there any archaelogical evidence that Nebby attacked the mighty fortress Island Tyre for 13 years or is this merely a non-event?

Jack the Bodiless

There is historical evidence that Nebby attacked "island Tyre" (Tyre was on an island) for 13 years.

...Or are you suggesting that someone just made that up?

Minimalist

300 years apart? Some waves.

And the city still exists today. It existed in the Hellenistic and Roman periods. It existed in the Byzantine period, it existed in the Islamic period. and the Crusader period and the Ottoman period.

In fact, it may well be the longest lasting place that was ever totally destroyed in all of history!