lpetrich

Rational BAC:
Life is a test Mark.

An omnimax entity would not need to "test" anything, since it would already know everything.

If you are not part of the solution to poverty, you are part of the problem.

I am far from being either omnipotent or omniscient, which means that I am far from being omniresponsible.

winstonjen:
So? Humans do not have limitless power to prevent suffering and grant wishes. The Xian god supposedly does.

Rational BAC:
That limitless power may just work through us.

Except that the Xtian God can supposedly do things like rain manna from heaven. Now when is the last time manna rained from heaven?

And we are far from being either omnipotent or omniscient; we are thus poor-quality tools. It's like trying to hire squirrels to do home-repair work; an omnimax entity will find it more efficient to do things directly.

If we sit with our thumbs up our butts and expect God to handle everything, nothing will happen at all.

Except that having manna rain from heaven on you is not "nothing happening".

Christians understand this very well. I don't know why atheists have such a problem with self initiative.

Self-initiative is implicit lack of faith.

spurly

The reason it looks like this promise goes unfulfilled is because you have to harmonize it with other verses about prayer. For instance, in James 4 we are told that we ask and receive not because we ask with the wrong motives, to spend it on our own pleasures.

Other passages say that what we ask for must be in Jesus' name - meaning in line with his character.

Then there is the passage in Psalm that says "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart." What is the Psalmist talking about - he is saying that as we delight ourself in God, as his will becomes our will, as his passion becomes our passion, as his desires become our desires, then what we ask for will really line up with what God wants for us. If we ask for those things, we won't be refused. However, sometimes we interpret passages like this one wrong and think that God meant he will just give us whatever we want.

Just some thoughts from the other side of the fence.

Kevin

spurly

THis goes back to the whole existence of evil and suffering and why God allows it. For the answer to this question, you probably need to read some of those threads, and read the source book.

Kevin

Yahzi

Did you miss the part where Magus was requested to ask for world peace?

Are you saying that world peace is not in line with Jesus' character or what God wants for us?

I agree: the character described by the Bible desires war and suffering, and delights in rapine, slaughter, and the smell of burning flesh. If your position is that God does not grant world peace because God is evil, then we agree.

Yahzi

I've read those threads, and I didn't see any answers there.

The source book does contain an answer, I agree. The answer the source book offers is that God is powerful and can do what he wants, and what he wants is to make people suffer a lot and kill them. Not necessarily in that order.

The Problem of Evil does not refute a god who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and wicked. If you worship an evil god, then please move along: this thread is not for you (after all, an evil god could just break his promises). However, if you are under the delusion that your god is good and still allows the events described in the Bible (never mind the modern day!), then you have some explaining to do.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by spurly
Other passages say that what we ask for must be in Jesus' name - meaning in line with his character.

If, when Jesus said, "in my name", he meant "in line with my character", why didn't he say "in line with my character", instead of resorting to "in my name", which sounds like we should pray, "In Jesus's name I ask"?

mark9950

Jesus had some character does he?

He cursed a fig tree for not producing figs because they were out of season.

He attack money changers in the temple.

He cast out devils in someones herd of swine and they died(he caused someone elses property to be destroyed)

Boy some character.I think david koresh was on his level.

mark9950

This so called limitless power is very limited.

Go to any christian church or christian and ask them for money(lets say $1,000.00),You do not have to take it but jesus said ask ask you shall receive and see if you receive a dime.

Now these you are asking are fundie christians who supposed to believe in jesus and his teachings 100%.

You probably get maybe a 90% receive nothing from these people out of 100 churches,but you will probably get a funny look.

You may get the $1000.00 from one out of 100 churches,but the other 9 might give you something most likely the other 90 will give you a funny look.

Maybe someone shold try it.Jesus said"ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE".

AJ113

Nope, "in his name" means in his name. If it meant "in his character" it would say "in his character." Unless of course, you're telling us that the bible is wrong.

Calzaer

And the brush-off continues.