Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 11-10-2011, 04:13 PM

Poor bastard. But that is what comes when one choses to foolishly align themselves with intransigent ignorance and a despicable organization.

mountainman · 11-10-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

I support Licona.

Then we atheists will see you and him both in hell

As above so below. Perhaps we will all join Constantine in Hades?

mountainman · 11-10-2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This story is still on the front pages of the religious press:

Baptist Press: "Apologist's views bring back inerrancy debate"

Quote:

Below Licona's response was a list of 13 scholars who, though they may not hold Licona's position, "are in firm agreement that it is compatible with biblical inerrancy."

Three Southern Baptist seminary professors were on the list: James Chancellor of Southern Seminary and Jeremy Evans and Heath Thomas of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Professors from Liberty University, Biola University and Wheaton College also lent their support.

Chancellor told Baptist Press his name is no longer a part of the list and declined further comment. Thomas told Baptist Press he and Evans "have removed our names from the letter."

Evans said Southeastern is going to address the issue as part of a review of Licona's book in the seminary's journal and a scholarly forum.

...

The edition of the Southeastern Theological Review which is slated to include a review of Licona's book is expected next summer, Evans said, and he referred questions about the panel to Thomas. Licona said Geisler declined an invitation to participate in the forum but Mohler accepted.

Just be thankful there's no more death penalty for heresy (so far.)

To be specific the heresy here is the
Dehistoricizing

You see how new heresies are invented every day to side-step the obvious question? The greatest explosion of heresies occurred in the 4th century and was catalogued by the master heresiologist Epiphanius. I await the day the "Panarion" becomes available to the public at large in an English translation.

hjalti · 11-10-2011, 07:35 PM

I can't feel sorry for the guy. If you become a member of a group that says you have to believe X in order to be a member, don't be shocked if they kick you out if you no longer believe X.

judge · 11-10-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

I can't feel sorry for the guy. If you become a member of a group that says you have to believe X in order to be a member, don't be shocked if they kick you out if you no longer believe X.

Why feel sorry for him? He's free!

mountainman · 11-10-2011, 08:57 PM

There is little wonder that Biblical Historians dont begin citing "The Acts of Pilate" aka "The Gospel of Nicodemus" in support of the historicity of the Matthean zombies. The two authors of this Gnostic text are described to have been two of the zombies who were part of the Matthean zombie party during the mass resurrection event in downtown Jerusalem.

The names of these two historical zombies were specifically provided as Leucius and Charinus, which matches the only known historical name "Leucius Charinus" to be associated with any non canonical text.

Why do the Biblical Historians handing out the cane to Licona over the Matthean Zombie Event not cite the existence of the Gnostic literature that claims to have been written by two of the Greek literate Matthean Zombies as disclosed therein? Doesn't this text support their case against Licona?

Sheshbazzar · 11-10-2011, 09:21 PM

'Ooops! perhaps we really should'a hung onto that one!'

Next question is; 'How we gonna cover our asses now...?' Stupid fundies :hysterical:

mountainman · 11-15-2011, 03:09 PM

Christianity Today Article: Interpretation Sparks a Grave Theology Debate - Apologist’s questioning of Matthew 27 creates theological war of words.

Quote:

Daniel B. Wallace, New Testament professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, said he disagrees with Licona's interpretation but considers the issue hermeneutical, not a challenge to biblical inerrancy.

"If we view our own interpretation to be just as inerrant as the Scriptures," he said, "this could ironically elevate tradition and erode biblical authority."

Already, at least two Southern Baptist entities—the New Orleans seminary and the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention—have rescinded invitations for Licona to speak at apologetics conferences, Licona said.

The NAMB, meanwhile, eliminated Licona's position. Licona said the decision came after he offered to resign rather than cast a shadow over the board and its president, Kevin Ezell.

"I love NAMB and Kevin and wanted to protect them," Licona said. "They then decided to make the call and eliminate my position. Now that the issue has escalated far beyond what I had ever expected, it was definitely a good decision."

Cege · 11-15-2011, 04:20 PM

If Matthew 27:51-54 had any verification from any Jewish source in the 1st century, Licona would have been able to appeal to that/those sources, but alas! none exists. Or at least none that any main stream Christian authority recognizes, as mountainman as pointed out previously.

Only faith in the NT writings can sustain any belief in sainted zombies having actually come to life when Jesus was crucified.

Sheshbazzar · 11-15-2011, 05:23 PM

It is really NOT much faith in the NT writings -as a whole- or in the integrity of The Scriptures as a whole.

Bible inerrantist have some mighty explaining to do if they wish to insist upon defending the inerrancy of Matthew 27:51-54
in light of;

Quote:

10. But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he?

11. As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up,

12. So man lies down AND DOES NOT RISE. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.

13. "Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your WRATH is past,.... (Job 14:13)

27. And as man is appointed to die ONCE, and after that to face judgment,.. ( Hebrews 9:27)

5. But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are storing up for yourself wrath in THE DAY OF WRATH and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; ... (Romans 2:5)

9. For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us FROM TO THE WRATH TO COME. 1 Thess 1:9-10)

It will be interesting to see how these Fundies will ever be able to reconcile and support any claims that THE HEAVENS ARE NO MORE and that THE COMING DAY OF GOD'S WRATH IS ALREADY PAST_ to allow Matthew's zombie saints to have literaly arisen from their graves.

What happened to these saints? did they die again?
Then both Job 14:12 and Hebrews 9:27 are wrong.

These are only a few of the most prominent Biblical contradictions that arise if Matthew 27:51-54 is to be accepted and taken as a literal account of an event that really happened.

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11-10-2011, 04:13 PM	#31
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Poor bastard. But that is what comes when one choses to foolishly align themselves with intransigent ignorance and a despicable organization.

11-10-2011, 07:35 PM	#34
hjalti Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Iceland Posts: 761	I can't feel sorry for the guy. If you become a member of a group that says you have to believe X in order to be a member, don't be shocked if they kick you out if you no longer believe X.

11-10-2011, 08:57 PM	#36
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	There is little wonder that Biblical Historians dont begin citing "The Acts of Pilate" aka "The Gospel of Nicodemus" in support of the historicity of the Matthean zombies. The two authors of this Gnostic text are described to have been two of the zombies who were part of the Matthean zombie party during the mass resurrection event in downtown Jerusalem. The names of these two historical zombies were specifically provided as Leucius and Charinus, which matches the only known historical name "Leucius Charinus" to be associated with any non canonical text. Why do the Biblical Historians handing out the cane to Licona over the Matthean Zombie Event not cite the existence of the Gnostic literature that claims to have been written by two of the Greek literate Matthean Zombies as disclosed therein? Doesn't this text support their case against Licona?

11-10-2011, 09:21 PM	#37
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	'Ooops! perhaps we really should'a hung onto that one!' Next question is; 'How we gonna cover our asses now...?' Stupid fundies :hysterical:

11-15-2011, 04:20 PM	#39
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	If Matthew 27:51-54 had any verification from any Jewish source in the 1st century, Licona would have been able to appeal to that/those sources, but alas! none exists. Or at least none that any main stream Christian authority recognizes, as mountainman as pointed out previously. Only faith in the NT writings can sustain any belief in sainted zombies having actually come to life when Jesus was crucified.

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