Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Memebrain · 01-16-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyst

Since 'Jesus' never existed you are listening to a Greek describe what he thinks a Jew might have said. A pointless argument indeed.

This is an especially bad place to bring up the point that Jesus was a fictional Greek invention, because your position lacks evidence to start with, but now we will be left wondering why a Greek author would put a Greek character in a humiliating situation and encourage intolerance of Greeks.

Is there a thread on FRDB about whether Jesus existed or not? The miracle stories tell me that he probably didn't but I'd be interested in the arguments for.

Memebrain · 01-16-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I wondered if any of you sceptics would question whether the recently invented term 'racism' was really a Universal Law of Morality (whether it is or not), and whether we should conform to this demand of us. But it seems that scepticism of contemporary fads and slogans isn't something people think about.

At all events, condemning people who lived before the political left thought this one up seems a bit daft to me. No doubt everyone posting in this forum is a scumbag (including me) because we haven't conformed to some demand that someone will invent ca. 2066?

Racism is illogical no matter when you happen to be living. It's not merely a whimsical demand not to be racist but a logical one. If anyone could make a logical case against the way everyone in this thread thinks then I expect we be prepared to hear it.

You talk about condemning someone. Who, in this thread is condemning anyone? We're merely comparing the Christian version of Jesus to the most accurate version we can rely on.

Roger Pearse · 01-16-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memebrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I wondered if any of you sceptics would question whether the recently invented term 'racism' was really a Universal Law of Morality (whether it is or not), and whether we should conform to this demand of us. But it seems that scepticism of contemporary fads and slogans isn't something people think about.

At all events, condemning people who lived before the political left thought this one up seems a bit daft to me. No doubt everyone posting in this forum is a scumbag (including me) because we haven't conformed to some demand that someone will invent ca. 2066?

Racism is illogical no matter when ...(snip conformist stuff).

Before uttering the slogans of 2002 as if they were eternal verities, it is usually best to be sure that they are. I was suggesting that you were somewhat uncritical. I wasn't asking you to demonstrate how uncritical you were!

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Toto · 01-16-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memebrain

...
Is there a thread on FRDB about whether Jesus existed or not? The miracle stories tell me that he probably didn't but I'd be interested in the arguments for.

There are many, too many. There is a search function near the top of the page. Look for a recent thread on the Jesus Project.

Toto · 01-16-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memebrain

...
Racism is illogical no matter when you happen to be living. It's not merely a whimsical demand not to be racist but a logical one. If anyone could make a logical case against the way everyone in this thread thinks then I expect we be prepared to hear it.

Racism is a fairly recent invention in world history, and hardly applies here. If Jesus was a Palestinian Jew, he would not be considered a different "race" from Samaritans or Greeks by modern definitions.

Quote:

You talk about condemning someone. Who, in this thread is condemning anyone? We're merely comparing the Christian version of Jesus to the most accurate version we can rely on.

Well, no, you are picking at an embarrassing part of the gospels, but those gospels are Christian. And you have used some very loaded language - "racist" and "idiot" - which generally indicate you want to provoke a fight, rather than explore an issue.

Roger Pearse · 01-16-2009, 01:09 AM

I hope that I didn't offend anyone. What I was doing was questioning what seemed to be unexamined presumptions in the original. In any subject, it is the things we take for granted that will undo us.

ApostateAbe · 01-16-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memebrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

This is an especially bad place to bring up the point that Jesus was a fictional Greek invention, because your position lacks evidence to start with, but now we will be left wondering why a Greek author would put a Greek character in a humiliating situation and encourage intolerance of Greeks.

Is there a thread on FRDB about whether Jesus existed or not? The miracle stories tell me that he probably didn't but I'd be interested in the arguments for.

A handful of current threads are debating that very topic. Here is one from the main page: "Debate on Whether Jesus Was a Historical Figure."

Here is an old thread of mine from years ago: "Jesus existed, evidenced by his false prophecy."

It is probably the hottest topic here in this forum.

Memebrain · 01-16-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Racism is a fairly recent invention in world history, and hardly applies here. If Jesus was a Palestinian Jew, he would not be considered a different "race" from Samaritans or Greeks by modern definitions.

Racism isn't an invention; it's a phenomenon as old as mankind itself. The word "racism" may have been coined relatively recently but the phenomenon is independent of our understanding of it. You wouldn't say that Darwin invented evolution.

If your second sentence in the quote above is accurate then I guess Jesus wasn't racist and I'd thank you for the information.

Quote:

Well, no, you are picking at an embarrassing part of the gospels, but those gospels are Christian. And you have used some very loaded language - "racist" and "idiot" - which generally indicate you want to provoke a fight, rather than explore an issue.

Get over it. It probably drew more people to the thread than a less loaded title would have done.

Toto · 01-16-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memebrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Racism is a fairly recent invention in world history, and hardly applies here. If Jesus was a Palestinian Jew, he would not be considered a different "race" from Samaritans or Greeks by modern definitions.

Racism isn't an invention; it's a phenomenon as old as mankind itself. The word "racism" may have been coined relatively recently but the phenomenon is independent of our understanding of it. You wouldn't say that Darwin invented evolution.

Tribalism is old. Racism depends on dividing people into races and ascribing meaning to that division, which happened mostly in the 19th century.

Now in the 21st century, we tend to think that race cannot be well defined.

Quote:

If your second sentence in the quote above is accurate then I guess Jesus wasn't racist and I'd thank you for the information.

So is there any point to this thread?

Quote:

Well, no, you are picking at an embarrassing part of the gospels, but those gospels are Christian. And you have used some very loaded language - "racist" and "idiot" - which generally indicate you want to provoke a fight, rather than explore an issue.

Get over it. It probably drew more people to the thread than a less loaded title would have done.

Look around the forum. There are threads that are more popular than this without loaded titles.

Memebrain · 01-16-2009, 01:48 AM

Toto removed another post of mine. This is not fair. For some reason Toto thinks it's okay for Roger Pearce to call me uncritical without arguing against my comments but I cannot dismiss him for doing so. If this post gets removed then this discussion board doesn't deserve my participation.

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01-16-2009, 01:09 AM	#26
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I hope that I didn't offend anyone. What I was doing was questioning what seemed to be unexamined presumptions in the original. In any subject, it is the things we take for granted that will undo us.

01-16-2009, 01:48 AM	#30
Memebrain Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 104	Toto removed another post of mine. This is not fair. For some reason Toto thinks it's okay for Roger Pearce to call me uncritical without arguing against my comments but I cannot dismiss him for doing so. If this post gets removed then this discussion board doesn't deserve my participation.

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