Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HaysooChreesto! · 05-03-2004, 12:35 PM

I asked about this in another thread that I made earlier but it didn't get any attention. So...

Has anyone here ever read a plain english bible? I'm thinking about buying one but I'm worried that the myriad scenes of rape, torture, incest, murder, etc will be watered down ala the "Good News" bible.

I want to reread some parts of the "Good Book" but I can't stand reading all the thees and thous and all the other flowery elements thereof. I want to be able to quote chapter and verse like so many here can and it would seem easier to do if I didn't have to learn to quote it all in a different form of the English language that I'm not used to.
It seems to me that taking away the flowery prose of the KJV has the potential to expose to believers what is actually being said-"well, it says that but it means something else" type of response.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Space Chef · 05-03-2004, 12:50 PM

The NRSV bible has a pretty good reputation among kaffirs (doesn't it?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamma

I want to be able to quote chapter and verse like so many here can and it would seem easier to do if I didn't have to learn to quote it all in a different form of the English language that I'm not used to.

I think most people (infidels and Christians alike), just flip to the index for a certain verse containing a word, or subject, and on the net they just do a quick search.

Rhaedas · 05-03-2004, 12:51 PM

You might, if you haven't seen it yet, take a look at Bible Gateway and just see what the different version of bibles do to chapters that you're concerned about. At least that will help narrow which ones are the type you're looking for. Of course when arguing with someone about the meaning of a passage, often times the version you use will be held against you, so it helps to have a few different ones to dismiss that excuse.

HaysooChreesto! · 05-03-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space Chef

I think most people (infidels and Christians alike), just flip to the index for a certain verse containing a word, or subject, and on the net they just do a quick search.

Kaffir... I had to look that one up. Infidel was the very last definition...

I want to commit more of the bible to memory though. For example, "...verily I say unto you that this generation shall not pass away until I've returned." It's not exact but it's close enough to make the point. However, I can never remember which book it's in, let alone the chapter and verse. By knowing that I can add weight to my arguments with others.

Lately it seems as if I've been running across Jesus' fans who have a desire to let me know the "Good News". It's happened 3 times in the last two weeks.

Al Kafirun · 05-03-2004, 01:23 PM

There are bible sites that have various translations. You can test out each version there first. The worst thing about a plain english bible is that it mis-matches the Hebrew/Greek even worse than the victorian shit.

The Evil One · 05-03-2004, 02:49 PM

When I need a Bible passage, I usually go the Bible Gateway, and read the NIV (cos it's the default), the KJV (whihc I don't find too difficult cos I'm familiar with the English of the period), and Young's. That is probably a reasonable spread of translations.

Postcard73 · 05-03-2004, 06:41 PM

Off to BC&H...

Scott (Postcard73)
GRD Moderator

Madkins007 · 05-03-2004, 09:30 PM

You may want to also consider www.crosswalk.com's bible Study Tools- Bible in several versions and helps, etc.

For translations to think about...
New International Version is good, has a 7th grade reading level (the KJV is over a 12th grade level), and has a relatively smooth readability. The New American Standard Bible is also good in about the same way.

For a slightly more modern flavor and easier read- try the God's Word or New Living Bibles. They sacrifice a bit of literal accuracy for smoother reads.

You may also want to consider some of the translations that do not share in the King James heritage- the Doay Rheims or New Jerusalem, for example.

Peter Kirby · 05-04-2004, 06:53 PM

Consider getting The Complete Gospels or The Five Gospels for "The Scholars Version," an attempt at rendering the gospels in contemporary English (by the folks with the Jesus Seminar), without some of the harmonizing/conservative/sundayschool spin found elsewhere.

best,
Peter Kirby

Legion · 05-04-2004, 08:36 PM

I'd like to reiterate the recommendation for the New Revised Standard Version. Bruce Metzger is perhaps the best textual scholar around, and if you get the Oxford Annotated NRSV translation, then he is the senior editor on that, as well it has all the textual notes that mention anytime there is any doubt on how to translate something, plus the annotations that have all kinds of explanations and useful tidbits of information. However, if you are really interested in researching which translation works best for you, in addition to using Bible Gateway and Crosswalk to compare them, you could pick up Metzger's The Bible in Translation: Ancient and English Versions which has a rundown of just about every translation out there and critiques of their approaches, strengths, and weaknesses.

Kirby's suggestion is also good, but it's sort of narrow in that it only covers the gospels, but on the plus side, The Complete Gospels covers many gospels, not just the canonical ones. Although, that may not do you much good in dialoguing with ultra-conservative Christians bent on converting you who don't place any weight on non-canonical gospels anyway.

05-03-2004, 12:35 PM	#1
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	The Plain English Bible I asked about this in another thread that I made earlier but it didn't get any attention. So... Has anyone here ever read a plain english bible? I'm thinking about buying one but I'm worried that the myriad scenes of rape, torture, incest, murder, etc will be watered down ala the "Good News" bible. I want to reread some parts of the "Good Book" but I can't stand reading all the thees and thous and all the other flowery elements thereof. I want to be able to quote chapter and verse like so many here can and it would seem easier to do if I didn't have to learn to quote it all in a different form of the English language that I'm not used to. It seems to me that taking away the flowery prose of the KJV has the potential to expose to believers what is actually being said-"well, it says that but it means something else" type of response. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

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05-03-2004, 12:51 PM	#3
Rhaedas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,440	You might, if you haven't seen it yet, take a look at Bible Gateway and just see what the different version of bibles do to chapters that you're concerned about. At least that will help narrow which ones are the type you're looking for. Of course when arguing with someone about the meaning of a passage, often times the version you use will be held against you, so it helps to have a few different ones to dismiss that excuse.

05-03-2004, 01:23 PM	#5
Al Kafirun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: USA Posts: 323	There are bible sites that have various translations. You can test out each version there first. The worst thing about a plain english bible is that it mis-matches the Hebrew/Greek even worse than the victorian shit.

05-03-2004, 02:49 PM	#6
The Evil One Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: England Posts: 2,561	When I need a Bible passage, I usually go the Bible Gateway, and read the NIV (cos it's the default), the KJV (whihc I don't find too difficult cos I'm familiar with the English of the period), and Young's. That is probably a reasonable spread of translations.

05-03-2004, 06:41 PM	#7
Postcard73 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Roanoke, VA. Posts: 2,198	Off to BC&H... Scott (Postcard73) GRD Moderator

05-03-2004, 09:30 PM	#8
Madkins007 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 591	You may want to also consider www.crosswalk.com's bible Study Tools- Bible in several versions and helps, etc. For translations to think about... New International Version is good, has a 7th grade reading level (the KJV is over a 12th grade level), and has a relatively smooth readability. The New American Standard Bible is also good in about the same way. For a slightly more modern flavor and easier read- try the God's Word or New Living Bibles. They sacrifice a bit of literal accuracy for smoother reads. You may also want to consider some of the translations that do not share in the King James heritage- the Doay Rheims or New Jerusalem, for example.

05-04-2004, 06:53 PM	#9
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Consider getting The Complete Gospels or The Five Gospels for "The Scholars Version," an attempt at rendering the gospels in contemporary English (by the folks with the Jesus Seminar), without some of the harmonizing/conservative/sundayschool spin found elsewhere. best, Peter Kirby

05-04-2004, 08:36 PM	#10
Legion Regular Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: near NYC Posts: 102	I'd like to reiterate the recommendation for the New Revised Standard Version. Bruce Metzger is perhaps the best textual scholar around, and if you get the Oxford Annotated NRSV translation, then he is the senior editor on that, as well it has all the textual notes that mention anytime there is any doubt on how to translate something, plus the annotations that have all kinds of explanations and useful tidbits of information. However, if you are really interested in researching which translation works best for you, in addition to using Bible Gateway and Crosswalk to compare them, you could pick up Metzger's The Bible in Translation: Ancient and English Versions which has a rundown of just about every translation out there and critiques of their approaches, strengths, and weaknesses. Kirby's suggestion is also good, but it's sort of narrow in that it only covers the gospels, but on the plus side, The Complete Gospels covers many gospels, not just the canonical ones. Although, that may not do you much good in dialoguing with ultra-conservative Christians bent on converting you who don't place any weight on non-canonical gospels anyway.

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