Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doctor X · 03-18-2004, 12:40 AM

Or . . . perhaps the truth is closer to the truth than we thought. . . .

--J.D.

Postcard73 · 03-18-2004, 12:46 PM

Please remember that this is BC&H. Try to keep the posts on-topic.

Scott (Postcard73)
BC&H Moderator

Doctor X · 03-19-2004, 11:19 AM

I merely encourage posters, all posters, to read the posts.

They may discover the context if they do that.

--J.D.

Toto · 03-19-2004, 11:33 AM

Things seem on topic. I think Scott meant to ask people to keep the level of discourse at a higher intellectual level befitting an upper forum.

Going back to the opening post, since I don't think the Jesus character of the gospels really existed, I don't think he was a drunk or a glutton. If you read that passage in context, it says

Quote:

16"To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:

17" 'We played the flute for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge
and you did not mourn.'

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

It seems more of a comment on "this generation" and how they can't get anything right. (I'm sure there is some more scholarly commentary on that passage somewhere.)

Doctor X · 03-19-2004, 11:42 AM

["Poof!"--Ed.]

Revelation_Man · 03-20-2004, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zucco
Matthew 11:19
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Does this verse imply that Jesus drank too much wine or am I misunderstanding the "Son of Man" reference? I find it hard to believe that god incarnate needed a little nip here and there to get through the day.

No, Jesus didn't drink to much, but the idea that he drank at all made the people skeptical of his teachings.

This passage is meant to show the hypocrisy within the temple at the time about the people's views on drinking. When really it shouldn't matter whether Jesus drank or not, "wisdom is justified of her children" is a proverb that essentially means, don't judge one by his actions, but by what those actions produce. The ends sometimes do justify the means.

And I don't find it hard to believe that the god incarnate would want a little nip here and there. I mean, he doesn't need to drink. He can quit anytime he wants. But come on, if you were a deity who'd watch these humans having all this fun, wouldn't you do as much as possible to not only fit in, but also enjoy the ride?

MadMez · 03-20-2004, 11:59 AM

So the belief in a supreme being sending itself down to it's creation to indulge a little in its creation's imbibing by allowing itself the briefest co-weakness with it's creation to demonstrate it's creation's hypocrisy, isn't hypocrisy?

I see.

Revelation_Man · 03-21-2004, 12:38 PM

Who said drinking was a weakness?

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03-18-2004, 12:40 AM	#11
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Or . . . perhaps the truth is closer to the truth than we thought. . . . --J.D.

03-18-2004, 12:46 PM	#12
Postcard73 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Roanoke, VA. Posts: 2,198	Please remember that this is BC&H. Try to keep the posts on-topic. Scott (Postcard73) BC&H Moderator

03-19-2004, 11:19 AM	#13
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	I merely encourage posters, all posters, to read the posts. They may discover the context if they do that. --J.D.

03-19-2004, 11:42 AM	#15
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	["Poof!"--Ed.]

03-20-2004, 11:59 AM	#17
MadMez Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bend, OR, USA Posts: 360	So the belief in a supreme being sending itself down to it's creation to indulge a little in its creation's imbibing by allowing itself the briefest co-weakness with it's creation to demonstrate it's creation's hypocrisy, isn't hypocrisy? I see.

03-21-2004, 12:38 PM	#18
Revelation_Man Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 39	Who said drinking was a weakness?

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