spin

You got it.


spin

spin

OK, I get the picture. No matter how much evidence is thrown at you that Tyre was plainly the island and that's where its temples and administration was, you are never going to look at it and you will continue to ignore it, pushing this "mainland Tyre" fallacy, because that way at least you can pretend you have a fulfilled prophecy. Doesn't that make your religious ideals feel cheap? :banghead:


spin

arnoldo

Do you have any historical, archaelogical, or scholarly evidence that Tyre on the island and on the mainland were EVER considered two seperate cities. I have already submitted references that state otherwise.

spin

Most sources clearly make the distinction between Tyre and Ushu prior to the Greek era. I cited sources from Amarna and from Assyria (Ashurbanipal) in this thread.

What primary references have you ever cited on the subject that Tyre was on the mainland?


spin

arnoldo

See post #349

arnoldo

And for a more scholarly source the following which indicates that Tyre is located beneath the rubble at this very moment.


http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...96207405000397

arnoldo

Note: problems placing link to post #576http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fb4c501624130a

spin

Well done. You didn't think, though, that Strabo writing in the 1st c. BCE and interested in geographical description, ie not a historical source for any period other than his own, isn't really any help to you at all?... ... No, I didn't think so. As you haven't read Strabo (Geog. 16.2.23), here's what he writes:

23 But Tyre is wholly an island, being built up nearly in the same way as Aradus; and it is connected with the mainland by a mole, which was constructed by Alexander when he was besieging it; and it has two harbours, one that can be closed and the other, called "Aegyptian" harbour, open. The houses here, it is said, have many stories, even more than the houses at Rome, and on this account, when an earthquake took place, it lacked but little of utterly wiping out the city. The city was also unfortunate when it was taken by siege by Alexander; but it overcame such misfortunes and restored itself both by means of the seamanship of its people, in which the Phoenicians in general have been superior to all peoples of all times, and by means of their dye-houses for purple; for the Tyrian purple has proved itself by far the most beautiful of all; and the shell-fish are caught near the coast; and the other things requisite for dyeing are easily got; and although the great number of dye-works makes the city unpleasant to live in, yet it makes the city rich through the superior skill of its inhabitants. The Tyrians were adjudged autonomous, not only by the kings, but also, at small expense to them, by the Romans, when the Romans confirmed the decree of the kings. Heracles is paid extravagant honours by them. The number and the size of their colonial cities is an evidence of their power in maritime affairs. Such, then, are the Tyrians. from Lacus Curtius.

Does this help your lost cause in any respect?


spin

Jack the Bodiless

Post #349 does not support your position, arnoldo (no surprise there).

All it's saying is that the MODERN city of Tyre is on what was once the island AS WELL AS what was once the mainland: because it extends right across Alexander's causeway, which has NOW joined the island to the coast. The MODERN CITY was once two distinct urban centers.

It then goes on to say exactly the opposite of what you want it to say:
This tells us the following facts:

1. The walls were on the ISLAND.
2. The mainland was called USHU and not TYRE.
3. The mainland was NOT A CITY, but "actually more like a line of suburbs than any one city".
It says nothing of the sort: it only says that this area (of the island, because that's where the ports were) has been built upon.

Still more distractions from the prophecy-failure?

And of course you're still ignoring that both Tyre AND Ushu were quickly rebuilt. Let's hear more about your time-travelling Muslims!

sugarhitman

Now there are quite a few sources who say this same thing. Even Atheist.com mentions this. Critics in trying to make Zek's prophecy false have embark on a mission of falsefying history, like trying to seperate the mainland city from the island and Nebby's sieging the island. But the truth is Tyre was situated on the island and the mainland. Various historians says that the island was the center of administration, and worship, but the majority of the people lived in the mainland city. The book of Joshua calls it the fortified city of Tyre and it was on the mainland next to Ramah. Menander and others call it Old Tyre, while other calls it USHU. Whatever the name of it Ezekiel does not seperate it from Tyre. The mainland was so important, that in the letters to the Egyptian king from the king of Tyre he makes it more then clear that the island and even himself would not survive without it. Indeed the destruction of the mainland city was the beginning of the end of Tyre's renown wealth and prestige. Those famous ceder trees which also helped to enrich Tyre are all but gone. The only thing remaining of Tyre is a fishing site and an unhealthy hostility towards Israel. Darkwater says the prophecy failed because the island is no longer. But the fact is the current city is in the midst of the sea peopled in that same location as in old times.


And futhermore the key hint that the final destruction takes place in the end, is when God mentions the bringing down into the pit and when He shall set glory in the land of the living. Look at what the prophets all say that when this earthquake hits ALL the islands will be destroyed. The island city was never foretold as being desolate and without inhabitant until this event occurs (and no this is not poetry this is literal).


This is what the prophecy shows.

1. Nebby and the nations diminish Tyre which they did by destroying the mainland city.
2. After this diminish Tyre becomes a place for fishing (this true as I write)
3. Final destruction, Tyre buried in the sea...deep beneath the sea. (some people believe that Alex building the causeway was the fulfillment of the burying in the sea judgement. But in ch.27 God makes it clear that when Tyre is "broken by the seas" everything, and every person left in it will fall into the sea with it as well. This did not occur when Alex built the causeway for there were only three things showed to be LAYED in the WATER by Alex, wood, stones and Dirt. This part is yet future.)


The prophecy of Ezekiel is so accurate that sometimes the hairs on my neck stand, when I read it.... this is proof that God exist.....there is just no way around it....no matter how you try. :wave: